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Sigh ... I knew this was going to happen. :-/ This is part of Google's strategy to push Dart in the browser. Soon they're going to start developing Angular primarily in Dart, and 'back-porting' features to JavaScript. Sadly, this is the nature of so-called "Open Source" at Google.
Sigh ... I knew this was going to happen. :-/ This is part of Google's strategy to push Dart in the browser. Soon they're going to start developing Angular primarily in Dart, and 'back-porting' features to JavaScript. Sadly, this is the nature of so-called "Open Source" at Google.
First of all, this was already announced months ago, so it already happened. Secondly, Google is a big company and some teams within it wanted to use Dart, whereas otheres want to use vanila javascript and Angular, so now you have both. Thirdly, Angular is in the process of being broken apart to modular components for 2.0, it also now cross-pollinates with another Google-y called Web Components. In future, the equive…
Specifically who?
I'm using AngularJS. But this Dart news is a dark cloud. I will never use Dart, or anything that locks me into Google's walled garden. I view Dart as a major negative. Hello Ember.
"I will never use Dart" That's quite a sure statement. Why don't you think Dart will ever be natively adopted by Firefox at some point in the future?
For the record, I'm not worried about JS being replaced by a better language. I am working to do that within Ecma TC39, by evolving JS aggressively.
The leaked Google doc's assertion that this is impossible and that a "clean break" is required to make significant improvements is nonsense, a thin rationale for going it alone rather than cooperating fully.
The big issue I have with Dart, which you seem to consider inconsequential, is whether Google forks the web developer community, not just its own paid developers, with Dart, and thereby fragments web content.
A Dart to JS compiler will never be "decent" compared to having the Dart VM in the browser. Yet I guarantee you that Apple and Microsoft (and Opera and Mozilla, but the first two are enough) will never embed the Dart VM.
So "Works best in Chrome" and even "Works only in Chrome" are new norms promulgated intentionally by Google. We see more of this fragmentation every day. As a user of Chrome and Firefox (and Safari), I find it painful to experience, never mind the political bad taste.
Ok, counter-arguments. What's wrong with playing hardball to advance the web, you say? As my blog tries to explain, the standards process requires good social relations and philosophical balance among the participating competitors.
Google's approach with Dart is thus pretty much all wrong and doomed to leave Dart in excellent yet non-standardized and non-interoperable implementation status. Dart is GBScript to NaCl/Pepper's ActiveG.
Could Google, unlike Microsoft ten or so years ago, prevail? Only by becoming the new monopoly power on the web. We know how that story ends.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2982949
EDIT: updated to the long form quote, for additional context.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"I will never use Dart" That's quite a sure statement. Why don't you think Dart will ever be natively adopted by Firefox at some point in the future?
Because that's a pretty laughable idea. There's no reason for browsers to choose Dart over CoffeeScript or TypeScript, and Dart is so far behind CoffeeScript it's not even funny. Google wants to do it, sure, but that doesn't mean they'll succeed, even if they try something as stubborn as running Dart alongside Javascript in Chrome. There simply isn't a path to ubiquity for Dart, and if there were it's not the only la…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
First of all, this was already announced months ago, so it already happened. Secondly, Google is a big company and some teams within it wanted to use Dart, whereas otheres want to use vanila javascript and Angular, so now you have both. Thirdly, Angular is in the process of being broken apart to modular components for 2.0, it also now cross-pollinates with another Google-y called Web Components. In future, the equive…
You're able to regurgitate bullet points off a slide deck. Good job. Edit: [source & details redacted] This 'FUD' comes directly from the Angular core team.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because that's a pretty laughable idea. There's no reason for browsers to choose Dart over CoffeeScript or TypeScript, and Dart is so far behind CoffeeScript it's not even funny. Google wants to do it, sure, but that doesn't mean they'll succeed, even if they try something as stubborn as running Dart alongside Javascript in Chrome. There simply isn't a path to ubiquity for Dart, and if there were it's not the only la…
In what way is Dart "so far behind" CoffeeScript?
Check tag count for questions on SO; 4500 for CoffeeScript, 1500 for Dart.
Not to mention the violent revulsion many people (myself included) are expressing in this topic.
I'm so confused by the comments here. Did I miss a line where they say AngularJS is being discontinued for AngularDart?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
First of all, this was already announced months ago, so it already happened. Secondly, Google is a big company and some teams within it wanted to use Dart, whereas otheres want to use vanila javascript and Angular, so now you have both. Thirdly, Angular is in the process of being broken apart to modular components for 2.0, it also now cross-pollinates with another Google-y called Web Components. In future, the equive…
> Secondly, Google is a big company and some teams within it wanted to use Dart, whereas otheres want to use vanila javascript and Angular, so now you have both. Specifically who?
Google employs a LOT of developers. A lot of those developers feel the same way members of HN does, that we don't need a language to replace javascript. Google is using their weight in the web world to try and get a new/alternative language added.
As long as Dart isn't completely shoved down our throats, I'm willing to give it a try. I think there is enough opposition within Google to make sure that Dart will at least have to live in peaceful co-existence with Javascript.
Google is pretty realistic that it'll be many more years before they can even have a chance of getting other browsers to add the DartVM. Heck, Chrome doesn't have it yet (outside of the Dartium build which has some fun memory leaks).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
First of all, this was already announced months ago, so it already happened. Secondly, Google is a big company and some teams within it wanted to use Dart, whereas otheres want to use vanila javascript and Angular, so now you have both. Thirdly, Angular is in the process of being broken apart to modular components for 2.0, it also now cross-pollinates with another Google-y called Web Components. In future, the equive…
> Secondly, Google is a big company and some teams within it wanted to use Dart, whereas otheres want to use vanila javascript and Angular, so now you have both. Specifically who?