Actualvim – Sublime Text 3 input mode powered by Vim itself • Hacker News Board

Re: Actualvim – Sublime Text 3 input mode powered by Vim itself

#81

Post by lunixbochs » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 6:50 PM UTC

justinmk wrote: post #79

lunixbochs wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have my share of complaints about the NetBeans protocol. It's actually pretty weird and incomplete, but it's supported by default so I'm using it. I think it's meant to be used the other way - using Vim as your frontend to edit code while using NetBeans to manage the project, lint, compile, etc - but it had enough functionality I was able to barely make it work the other way.

> NetBeans protocol ... I think it's meant to be used the other way - using Vim as your frontend to edit code while using NetBeans to manage the project eclim[1] is probably an excellent reference-implementation of both approaches. Did you look at it, and if so was it useful? [1] https://github.com/ervandew/eclim

Isn't eclim primarily to use Vim as the frontend and Eclipse as the backend? Same idea, slightly different scenario. I used it for linting Java over in sublimelint.

I developed ActualVim using only a VT100 reference ( http://bochs.info/text/vt100.txt ) and `:help netbeans`

Re: Actualvim – Sublime Text 3 input mode powered by Vim itself

#82

Post by lunixbochs » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 6:54 PM UTC

leokun wrote: post #77

lunixbochs wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, no +server in default OS X CLI Vim. I'm actually using a combination of their NetBeans communication protocol and raw tty output right now.

I didn't say default OS X, I said MacVim, which many Mac OS X users use. To say it doesn't work on Macs is wrong when there is MacVim.

I wrote it in OS X. I'm not sure where you see "doesn't work in OS X". I said it doesn't work in Windows.

Quoting the docs: "it's likely to only work in Linux and OS X for the near future"

It works out of the box for me in Mavericks. It would actually have a worse time running if you managed to use MacVim on the backend, because it scrapes the status and command lines from terminal output.

Re: Actualvim – Sublime Text 3 input mode powered by Vim itself

#83

Post by lunixbochs » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 7:00 PM UTC

DoggettCK wrote: post #67

madmax96 wrote: post #9

Why wouldn't I just use Vim (or better yet, Emacs) in the first place?

Multiple selections has been the killer feature for me, which is the only thing I haven't found a good replacement for in Vim or Emacs.

Have you seen https://github.com/terryma/vim-multiple-cursors and block cursor mode in Vim (ctrl+v)?

Re: Actualvim – Sublime Text 3 input mode powered by Vim itself

#84

Post by icambron » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 7:14 PM UTC

recuter wrote: post #24

TallboyOne wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of a challenge would it be to rewrite vim properly? Or is that a crazy idea..

Not that crazy. Vim itself is a reboot of Vi, and there were/are other minimal Vi clones that are very small (couple of KLOCs). You'd be throwing away the horrible Vimscript, and sadly the community is married to it. As a result your neat little Vim2 reboot thing will not be nearly as useful for a long time, so you've lost backwards compatibility for what? Cleaner internals? Doesn't really benefit the end user much.…

Not every potential Vim user already uses it. So right, you couldn't pry Vimscript out of the hands of diehard users, but you might get a big crowd of people who aren't otherwise willing to take on Vim in the first place.

Re: Actualvim – Sublime Text 3 input mode powered by Vim itself

#85

Post by dllthomas » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 7:29 PM UTC

ngokevin wrote: post #80

dllthomas wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There do seem to be things that Sublime does better, but some of us don't want chrome. I work mostly in terminals in ratpoison for a reason...

Chrome can be hidden. That's what I like about it, it has heavy built-in customization.

Yes, but addition of chrome that I then hide isn't better chrome (for me).

Re: Actualvim – Sublime Text 3 input mode powered by Vim itself

#86

Post by dbpatterson » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 7:39 PM UTC

DoggettCK wrote: post #67

madmax96 wrote: post #9

Why wouldn't I just use Vim (or better yet, Emacs) in the first place?

Multiple selections has been the killer feature for me, which is the only thing I haven't found a good replacement for in Vim or Emacs.

And of course... https://github.com/magnars/multiple-cursors.el for emacs folks (I use it every day...)

Re: Actualvim – Sublime Text 3 input mode powered by Vim itself

#87

Post by to3m » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 8:18 PM UTC

weaksauce wrote: post #58

leokun wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably isn't. It's when you want to do async or timed things that things start to fall apart.

What use case do you have for timed things or async things?

For good ideas for async stuff you should try emacs. You don't have to keep using it, just look at what it does with its built-in asynchronous subprocess handling. The interactive python shell is particularly neat, but it also has grep and compile functionality that doesn't block the editor as it runs, and a gdb mode that (based on my very brief go with it) seemed to work pretty well.

One neat thing I use it for is TTY capture from a target system (usually games console or embedded device) over a serial or network cable. Run your terminal program in emacs at the start of the day, and emacs will dutifully capture all the terminal output as you work. Search, save and manipulate TTY output using all the commands you know and love.

Well - except for `.'. Or `*'. emacs doesn't do those two...

Re: Actualvim – Sublime Text 3 input mode powered by Vim itself

#88

Post by johncoltrane » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 8:21 PM UTC

leokun wrote: post #13

xutopia wrote: post #2

This makes me want to ask... why not just use vim?

Because vim is broken. I gave up vim after 7 years because of all the segfaults, in-extensibility and just horrible code. Some of the files in the vim code base are over 20,000 lines with hundreds of ifdefs, and littered with unsafe pointer use. The code is a horrible experience to just look at, pre 1989 C style functions, mixed tabs and spaces everywhere, and the files aren't even a valid encoding of any kind whatso…

That's a point of view.

From my point of view it is a very dependable text editor with lots of room for customizability and an unparalleled text editing paradigm.

How many ifdefs it has, the length of its source files or its use of pointers don't matter to me because they have zero negative effect on my workflow. I like Vim as it is, I don't feel limited in any way.

The impossibility to make a clock in a text editor is not an indication that it's broken: it's a sign that you should buy a wristwatch.

Re: Actualvim – Sublime Text 3 input mode powered by Vim itself

#89

Post by johncoltrane » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 8:29 PM UTC

leokun wrote: post #78

glesica wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Vim is broken because you can't have a clock in your status line? Are you an idiot? Seriously, all that ranting and you can't come up with a single practical example of Vim being "broken" other than not being able to have a clock in your status line? I'm assuming you just made up the segfault thing because I have literally never seen that happen.

The clock is a basic example of something simple vim can't do. It's not because I can't have a clock.

That's a stupid example and it undermines everything sensible you said elsewhere.

What about the following useful usecases?

* on-the-fly syntax validation * non-blocking as-you-type completion * live results from shell commands * fast syntax highlighting * etc.

Re: Actualvim – Sublime Text 3 input mode powered by Vim itself

#90

Post by 0X1A » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 8:40 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #45

0X1A wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of vim and its key bindings is to not have to use anything other than the keyboard (and keys that are not too off from the home row), so it's not the best of both worlds at all. Having to click on something forces someone to use their mouse, breaking their concentration and wasting time on clicking on a tab.

Having to click on something is different from being able to click on something. Vim doesn't let you use one of the two primary input tools of your computer--Sublime lets you use both. To borrow your situation, if you are already using the mouse it's distracting to have to use the keyboard.

Maybe you should actually use something before forming an opinion on it. Your lack of knowledge with vim is pretty obvious given that you didn't know that you could use your mouse.