Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

pandodaily.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–329 of 329 posts

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#321

Post by [deleted] »

jumby wrote: post #47
sharkweek wrote: post #19

I have an honest and serious question -- who are the developers and designers who put these systems into place for the NSA? Are they aware of what they're doing or is it all classified and contracted out? Are they proud of their work? Is it just a paycheck? Surely someone with such a high aptitude could easily get a job elsewhere -- I guess I'm just unable to make the connection on who willingly builds this kind of s…

screw it, i'll repost my comment here too. I know i'll get the down-vote brigade but meh: Here's what bugs me about all the people chiming in about how messed up this all is. It's like you all think we live in some sort of utopia whereby we are the only ones doing this sort of surveillance. Every single sophisticated foreign intelligence is doing this back at us, their citizens and their enemies - probably with more…

[deleted]

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#322

Post by antocv »

dangero wrote: post #215
sharkweek wrote: post #19

I have an honest and serious question -- who are the developers and designers who put these systems into place for the NSA? Are they aware of what they're doing or is it all classified and contracted out? Are they proud of their work? Is it just a paycheck? Surely someone with such a high aptitude could easily get a job elsewhere -- I guess I'm just unable to make the connection on who willingly builds this kind of s…

I once met a young man who just graduated from college and started working for the NSA. During a Microsoft Kernel Drivers conference I grabbed a few minutes at my hotel gym and we struck up a conversation; or should I say he forced a conversation out of me. I generally mind my own business when working out. It honestly didn't seem too far off the "Good Will Hunting" recruiting scene. From the start of the conversatio…

> I didn't see it that way, but the reality distortion field that he lived in left him with no question that he had the coolest job ever. There didn't appear to be any awareness in his reality that perhaps I intentionally didn't apply to the NSA, nor would I accept an offer from the NSA if one was given.

I have seen some g-men and they perfectly fit this. The g-men that tried to recruit me also went for the same route, trying to sell the mission as something super mysteriously cool only a few select even know about. Thats the lure. Like a cult.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#323

Post by jgalt212 »

AlisdairSH wrote: post #299
sharkweek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get be wrong, I don't think for a second that it wouldn't be a ridiculously exciting job -- I mean even the thought about having a government security clearance is a thrilling thought (even though I'm sure it's less cinematic than I might hope) -- I also completely buy the competition angle -- especially considering I'm not going to pretend that Google is the "good guy" here, fighting perilously for our freedom…

"...the thought about having a government security clearance is a thrilling thought" Meh. Nothing cinematic about it at all. You fill out reams of paperwork (address and neighbors back 10 years), get interviewed by a tired bureaucrat, and all your friends, family, and neighbors get grilled by some other tired bureaucrats. Then, if you're lucky, they grant you an interim clearance so you can start work while they do w…

yes, that's pretty much the case, but one definitely should be able to get some mileage with one's peers and the ladies.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#324

Post by ryguytilidie »

ateeqs wrote: post #316
ryguytilidie wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't trying to show my weiner size. I was frustrated at your point being a pile of disingenuous garbage. People are upset the government is stealing their data. Your brain somehow mashed this together into "lol you idiots have no problem with voluntarily giving your info to a company but DO have a problem with it being stolen?" Is this just a desperate hope to improve your self esteem? Because it certainly has no…

Funny, you seem to be "frustrated" a lot. ;) A lot of peeps in HN seem to have this expectation that their data is somehow secure when they give it to a third-party. This is a completely false and an impossible expectation. To me, this _is_ and has been reality for a while. If an entity with resources really wants to get to your data, they will get to it. It doesn't matter if they steal or get a court order-- that, t…

Wow, the degree to which you're reaching to make yourself feel to superior to strangers on the internet is honestly pretty scary.

No one "has an expectation that their data is completely secure when they give it to a third party", you literally just made that up. Regardless, this statement is still different from the original implication that people were "stupid" because they would give their data to Google and have the audacity to be upset that the government stole it. But hey, don't let me disrupt your snarky, disingenuous bullshit? Hopefully you pretending strangers on the internet you assigned emotions to are dumb and you are smart helped your issues.

Looking forward to utterly insane snarky sentence that completely ignores that you are laughably incorrect followed with an emoticon! ;)

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#325

Post by Cookingboy »

angersock wrote: post #115
Cookingboy wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No there isn't a line in the sand. It's a gray issue. Ideologies and society values change throughout the history, and there is not right or wrong answer in many of those cases. Like a poster above mentioned, what IF thousands of lives are saved by sacrificing the privacy of a few million people? Is that worth it? If you say no, then what if I ask you the lives could be that of your loved ones? Just want to stress fr…

The other side is coming from fear. "Just want to stress from a different perspective, my family grew up poor in a 3rd world country, and they laugh at American's obsession with human rights and they just say "that's what people do if they never needed to worry about putting food on their table"." And you know why it's a 3rd world country? Because they lived how they had to and not how they ought to. Progress is not…

Your arrogance is astonishing. First of all, that 3rd world country moved a billion people out of absolute poverty without a "human rights revolution", sure there are still plenty of problems around, but progresses are absolutely made simply by making sure people are well fed. I'm not saying human rights/privacy isn't important, but sometimes different things have different priorities. Moral relativism does not imply inaction, it just implies that different people think differently on what is "meaningful". Despite your hubris you can't tell me your priority is more "correct" than mine, and I simply choose to focus on other actions that's meaningful to me.

If you want to resort to name calling then so be it, I've met my share of condescending people who always put themselves on a moral pedestal.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#326

Post by ateeqs »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #324
ateeqs wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, you seem to be "frustrated" a lot. ;) A lot of peeps in HN seem to have this expectation that their data is somehow secure when they give it to a third-party. This is a completely false and an impossible expectation. To me, this _is_ and has been reality for a while. If an entity with resources really wants to get to your data, they will get to it. It doesn't matter if they steal or get a court order-- that, t…

Wow, the degree to which you're reaching to make yourself feel to superior to strangers on the internet is honestly pretty scary. No one "has an expectation that their data is completely secure when they give it to a third party", you literally just made that up. Regardless, this statement is still different from the original implication that people were "stupid" because they would give their data to Google and have…

Hehe, given that you have been constantly attacking me so far, I think it's the other way around: I think you feel you are somehow superior to me. :)

You also need to learn to quote properly since I did not claim anyone to be "stupid."

Also, it has not been shown that the government has stolen anything. People are upset that the government has an indirect mechanism to access their data. And I am saying that giving third-party your data implies that other entities will get to it if they want it.

Not looking forward to your ad-hominem reply. ;)

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#327

Post by ateeqs »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #324
ateeqs wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, you seem to be "frustrated" a lot. ;) A lot of peeps in HN seem to have this expectation that their data is somehow secure when they give it to a third-party. This is a completely false and an impossible expectation. To me, this _is_ and has been reality for a while. If an entity with resources really wants to get to your data, they will get to it. It doesn't matter if they steal or get a court order-- that, t…

Wow, the degree to which you're reaching to make yourself feel to superior to strangers on the internet is honestly pretty scary. No one "has an expectation that their data is completely secure when they give it to a third party", you literally just made that up. Regardless, this statement is still different from the original implication that people were "stupid" because they would give their data to Google and have…

I take the "ad-hominem reply" back-- It seems you are at the "name calling" stage of disagreement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Di...

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#328

Post by ryguytilidie »

ateeqs wrote: post #326
ryguytilidie wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, the degree to which you're reaching to make yourself feel to superior to strangers on the internet is honestly pretty scary. No one "has an expectation that their data is completely secure when they give it to a third party", you literally just made that up. Regardless, this statement is still different from the original implication that people were "stupid" because they would give their data to Google and have…

Hehe, given that you have been constantly attacking me so far, I think it's the other way around: I think you feel you are somehow superior to me. :) You also need to learn to quote properly since I did not claim anyone to be "stupid." Also, it has not been shown that the government has stolen anything. People are upset that the government has an indirect mechanism to access their data. And I am saying that giving th…

"Hehe, given that you have been constantly attacking me so far, I think it's the other way around: I think you feel you are somehow superior to me. :)"

"Wait guys, let me get this straight: You guys are not okay with the US government accessing your data that Google has, but you are somehow okay with sharing your data with Google?

I just see big "evil" vs small "evil." I'm not seeing much of a difference.

Also, would you be okay if another government had access to your data in Google's cloud?

You guys are probably not seeing the futility of it all."

If you can type those two things so close together, you literally have zero self awareness. This started with you actually having the gall to imply that strangers on the internet stupid because of an insane projection you made up. Now your brain has managed to twist you insulting random strangers into someone else trying to feel superior.

"Also, it has not been shown that the government has stolen anything. People are upset that the government has an indirect mechanism to access their data. And I am saying that giving third-party your data implies that other entities will get to it if they want it."

It takes a record breaking amount of obtuseness to claim that the government doesnt steal data and then saying "the government has an indirect mechanism to access this data". I genuinely am unable to accept that a human brain can cloud logical thought that much.

Anyway, you clearly are going to prop yourself up as superior in your own mind no matter how many times I quote you contradicting yourself and making no logical sense, so I'll leave you to whatever you hope to gain from being a disingenuous jerk to strangers on the internet over a point you quite literally made up...? Cheers.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#329

Post by mattlutze »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #317
mattlutze wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is that difference? Please be as precise as you can. Because in the popular usage today, saying people (how many, and who?) are being treated as "second-class people" carries a very derogatory connotation. And if the difference is very small, it feels like an inappropriate statement to make. Re: your second sentence, my mind asks: "How many people have been tortured?" My gut tells me that the percent of people a…

Second-class? What about people in Gitmo, people without security clearances, people not in the NSA? Sorry, classified. On principle. Outsiders are not guilty until proven innocent, they are guilty, period. Insiders are innocent, period. That's how I see it when I max out the contrast. That China or other countries are that way is no excuse to do the same, it is even more reason to be not like that. The US is not the…

> What about people in Gitmo, people without security clearances, people not in the NSA?

Do I understand then that the US government is, in this definition, treats everyone like second-class citizens? I'm not quite sure what the punishment has been.

> it would hundreds of people,

A few people are people, a million people are a statistic. Quite true.

> And to me a deep, continuous concern is not "outrage", either. Declaring something "too much outrage" is not a valid argument for something, and a useless argument against something. It's really kind of a red herring.

The hazard/outrage measurement is not a red herring, it's an established risk communication methodology, developed academically in the late 70s (published in the early 90s) to aid environmental activist groups, corporations and governments alike in eliciting effective, responsible actions from corporations or the public, respectively.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outrage_factor

> Please, take me to that planet, I just don't see it sorry :/ The internet tells me more and more about how much oversight is lacking, am I holding it the wrong way or something?

Not knowing the scope of our ignorance is a reflection of less oversight, not more. If you know more and more the breadth of what we don't know, oversight is increasing.

> Are you serious?

I think so, yes. I see regularly reports far and wide of misconduct by politicians. I feel like they're regularly being taken to task in their communities. How TMZ would you like it to be for them before you feel they're watched sufficiently?

On the whistleblowers, I really know so little about the topic it'd be dishonest for me to try and add anything on the subject.

Post reply on HN