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My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

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Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#51

Post by chii »

vetler wrote: post #21
legulere wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a nice parable about working hard to have free time later: http://www.protolink.com/MexicanFisherman.html

Very nice parable, I love it. It seems to easy to get stuck in between the two, though - working hard, but not hard enough to retire early, but still not having time to enjoy life as the Mexican fisherman.

> working hard, but not hard enough to retire early

instead of thinking of work, think of it as creating value. If you are employed by somebody, you are creating value for them, which you take a % as salary/wage. If you work for yourself, all the value you create, you get to keep.

This means, that to get financial freedom, you must work for yourself. This is difficult, and often impossible if you don't already have any capital. I feel this is the true problem with society - that the poor cannot retain 100% of the value they generate because they lack the capital to do so, and therefore, forced to work for somebody else, and get back less than 100% of the value they generate.

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#52

Post by chii »

ars wrote: post #26
JoshTriplett wrote: post #13

> Two weeks before the class was over, the head of the deployment team asked, “Steve, are you single?” Yes. “Do you like to travel?” Sure. “Why don’t you come to Korea with us when we ship the system overseas.” The first of those questions was completely unnecessary, and invited a potential employment discrimination lawsuit; it fairly directly implies they might not have made the offer if he wasn't. It would have suf…

There is no federal law about Marital status discrimination, only state law, and not all states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_discrimination_law_... Note that California does prohibit it, but it seems to be a recent law. This http://www.unmarriedamerica.org/column-one/01-08-07-californ... implies it was around 2007/2008.

Its a dangerous question to ask anyway, not because its against the law, but because it is somewhat ethically grey - the candidate would feel they've been discriminated if they had answered that question "poorly".

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#54

Post by ronaldx »

ignostic wrote: post #6

I feel like I'm a different species when I hear someone excited about working 80+ hours a week. Having so little free time and so little time to spend with friends and family seems like a sad life regardless of the paycheck. I agree with this: "Have a passion for Doing something rather than Being a title on a business card." I also agree that "Showing up a lot increases your odds" (in this case meaning working a lot…

I read this comment and realised something. Although it's not particuarly my goal to work 80 hours a week:

I would rather work 80+ hours a week in something that I valued and that complemented/benefitted my life, than work 40 hours a week in a job where I was always waiting for my free time to come around.

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#55

Post by nerfhammer »

marvin wrote: post #47
bradgessler wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our company was founded on not working insane hours. From our jobs page ( http://www.polleverywhere.com/jobs ): "We do not do death marches. We do not do lockdowns. We do not believe in 80 hour work weeks as a way of life." If anybody is stuck in this kind of unnecessary insanity looking for a way out shoot me an email!

It is so fascinating to me that advertising a job as "not 80 hour work week" is a major selling point. I mean, kudos to you, you will probably attract a lot of skilled developers with this attitude. You will also get almost as much done as someone who does 80-hour weeks. Where I live, by law you're not allowed to work more than 40 hours a week. If a company violates this, you can literally go to court and get a summa…

45+ hours per week is a typical part of any professional career in the US

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#56

Post by Spearchucker »

ignostic wrote: post #6

I feel like I'm a different species when I hear someone excited about working 80+ hours a week. Having so little free time and so little time to spend with friends and family seems like a sad life regardless of the paycheck. I agree with this: "Have a passion for Doing something rather than Being a title on a business card." I also agree that "Showing up a lot increases your odds" (in this case meaning working a lot…

It's a maturity thing. I worked 80+ hours a week in my 20's, couldn't understand why anyone (my co-workers) wouldn't. The work fascinated me, and was secondary to getting spannered in bars and clubs, which is what others my age were doing.

Things slowed in my 30's - the social thing got more important, and I'd seen and done enough to realize how appallingly inefficient most of planet earth is, so I started doing stuff on the side for myself. Net effect is my work week dropped to maybe 50/60 hours a week. When I hit 42 I became a father, and now 40 hours a week seems unobtainable. I probably average no more than 35.

You choose your path. What seems right today may not be right tomorrow. I regret none of it, and given the chance would do it exactly the same again.

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#57

Post by jiggy2011 »

marvin wrote: post #47
bradgessler wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our company was founded on not working insane hours. From our jobs page ( http://www.polleverywhere.com/jobs ): "We do not do death marches. We do not do lockdowns. We do not believe in 80 hour work weeks as a way of life." If anybody is stuck in this kind of unnecessary insanity looking for a way out shoot me an email!

It is so fascinating to me that advertising a job as "not 80 hour work week" is a major selling point. I mean, kudos to you, you will probably attract a lot of skilled developers with this attitude. You will also get almost as much done as someone who does 80-hour weeks. Where I live, by law you're not allowed to work more than 40 hours a week. If a company violates this, you can literally go to court and get a summa…

Where are you? In the UK we technically have a similar thing but the employee can voluntarily opt out. Pretty much every job will request that you sign the opt-out form on day 1.

Does the rule apply to an individual or just to the individuals employment at a particular company?

For example can a person work 40 hours for company A and then 20 hours of company B, in which case can company B take on work contracts from company A using the same employee (who may or may not be the owner of company B)?

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#58

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #57
marvin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so fascinating to me that advertising a job as "not 80 hour work week" is a major selling point. I mean, kudos to you, you will probably attract a lot of skilled developers with this attitude. You will also get almost as much done as someone who does 80-hour weeks. Where I live, by law you're not allowed to work more than 40 hours a week. If a company violates this, you can literally go to court and get a summa…

Where are you? In the UK we technically have a similar thing but the employee can voluntarily opt out. Pretty much every job will request that you sign the opt-out form on day 1. Does the rule apply to an individual or just to the individuals employment at a particular company? For example can a person work 40 hours for company A and then 20 hours of company B, in which case can company B take on work contracts from…

The UK negotiated an opt out to the 48 hour maximum enforced by the European Working Time directive, though as you say it's something the individual has to agree to (though that can be just by agreeing to a job that stipulates the opt out in the contract).

I live in the UK and work in IT and have never had a contract that didn't automatically opt me out of it, however my wife is a doctor and they're all covered by it so work a maximum of 48 hours.

Worth noting that it's averaged over time rather than a set maximum for an individual week.

Also worth noting that individual countries can have stricter policies. I believe France has a lower maximum.

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#59

Post by DanBC »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #57
marvin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so fascinating to me that advertising a job as "not 80 hour work week" is a major selling point. I mean, kudos to you, you will probably attract a lot of skilled developers with this attitude. You will also get almost as much done as someone who does 80-hour weeks. Where I live, by law you're not allowed to work more than 40 hours a week. If a company violates this, you can literally go to court and get a summa…

Where are you? In the UK we technically have a similar thing but the employee can voluntarily opt out. Pretty much every job will request that you sign the opt-out form on day 1. Does the rule apply to an individual or just to the individuals employment at a particular company? For example can a person work 40 hours for company A and then 20 hours of company B, in which case can company B take on work contracts from…

> In the UK we technically have a similar thing but the employee can voluntarily opt out.

There's a maximum 48 hour work week, which the employee can opt out of. That 48 hours is normally averaged over 17 weeks. (I have no idea what happens if an employer tries to use median or modal instead of mean). But the employee can not opt out of the other requirements.

The 48 hour maximum doesn't cover people who control their own working hours (ie, start up founder); the armed forces, the police, and the emergency services, in some circumstances; domestic staff living in a household; some boat crew.

Trainee doctors used to be exempt. They're now covered, but averaged over 26 weeks.

Some staff are not allowed to opt out - airline pilots for example.

Workers can opt in and opt out of the arrangement, but they must give some notice if they had previously opted out and now want to opt in.

And all of this is for workers over the age of 18 - 16 and 17 year olds can only work for 8 hours a day or 40 hours a week with no averaging.

https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours

Re: My First Job: Fired and Rehired on Day 1

#60

Post by DanBC »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #58
jiggy2011 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you? In the UK we technically have a similar thing but the employee can voluntarily opt out. Pretty much every job will request that you sign the opt-out form on day 1. Does the rule apply to an individual or just to the individuals employment at a particular company? For example can a person work 40 hours for company A and then 20 hours of company B, in which case can company B take on work contracts from…

The UK negotiated an opt out to the 48 hour maximum enforced by the European Working Time directive, though as you say it's something the individual has to agree to (though that can be just by agreeing to a job that stipulates the opt out in the contract). I live in the UK and work in IT and have never had a contract that didn't automatically opt me out of it, however my wife is a doctor and they're all covered by it…

> (though that can be just by agreeing to a job that stipulates the opt out in the contract)

That would probably fall foul of the regulations.

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