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Why It's So Hard to Get From Brooklyn to Queens

m.theatlanticcities.com

31–40 of 118 posts

Re: Why It's So Hard to Get From Brooklyn to Queens

#31
post #25

Heh - I used to live in Greenpoint and would reverse commute up to Queens Plaza to avoid the "G to the L to the BDFQ" into midtown... On the contrary, Hoboken - where I now live - has a wealth of options to commute into both midtown and downtown NYC. Within a few blocks of my apartment: a subway trip of less than 20 mins to either Wall Street or 32nd (Midtown); ferry (a very pleasant 40 min trip to my office in the 4…

Same here, I live on the Jersey City waterfront and love the ferry commute. Hoboken and Jersey City are excellent places to live for a Manhattan job. We get to take advantage of the market inefficiency created by the "eww Jersey" popular image. Bonus, we dodge the NYC income tax which runs over 3% of income.

Re: Why It's So Hard to Get From Brooklyn to Queens

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another possibility would be to build all the planned subway extensions in Queens; Brooklyn already has good subway service, and a few more lines connecting the two boroughs would not hurt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IND_Second_System While we are at it, let's actually make use of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockaway_Beach_Branch

Build it? With whose money? The city's finances have been a disaster since 2008 and they've only been scraping by with a series of unsustainable tricks. The next mayor will almost certainly be Bill de Blasio, whose top agenda item is basically to spending a lot more money on the city's unionized labor. (His next agenda item is to revive rent control, because the War Emergency Tenant Protection Act apparently hasn't d…

The MTA is a state agency, so really you need to look at the state's budget, not the city's. I also have little sympathy for the argument that the MTA is too short on cash -- they have been wasting enormous amounts of tax dollars on failed projects for decades.

Not that that should give us any hope for an expanded subway system.

Re: Why It's So Hard to Get From Brooklyn to Queens

#33
post #15

There's an interesting follow-up article which attempts to debunk the "Great American Streetcar Scandal" http://m.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2013/06/be-careful-ho...

As a Queens native, I'm much more inclined to think that the reason Greenwald hints at the end of the article ("As white flight and urban decline escalated in the late 1960s, Queens identified more and more with Long Island, isolating Brooklyn further still.") was to blame. Though one side of my family didn't completely leave Brooklyn until the early 70s, the other side actually got out in the early 50s. This is probably related to the parts of Brooklyn they lived in.

That said, the changes in transit almost definitely had an impact, and i would guess that the two phenomena had a sympathetic effect on each other.

Re: Why It's So Hard to Get From Brooklyn to Queens

#34
post #15

There's an interesting follow-up article which attempts to debunk the "Great American Streetcar Scandal" http://m.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2013/06/be-careful-ho...

I do not buy that all. They say that streetcars were on their way out anyway because buses were more efficient. There is a significant hole in this reasoning because:

(a) GM is not in the business of owning street car lines; (b) GM spent considerable money to buy out the street car lines, nevertheless.

If the street car lines were on their way out anyways why did GM spend so much money on something very much out of their usual line business? It may not be true that GM was the sole reason streetcars went away there may have been other factors, but it is hard to deny that GM played a role and a very significant role as they were the party that did the actual physical destruction.

And, by the way, the only reason buses seemed cheaper at the time was subsidies. Street cars had to pay for the building and upkeep of their rails, while buses used the streets, and the city paid for upkeep of the streets. One usually does not consider the damage buses do on the streets, but it is pretty significant because heavy vehicles do disproportionate amount of damage to asphalt. When all costs are added up, light rail is usually much more efficient than buses and that is before you even consider environmental costs.

It is quite possible that as citizens started worrying over their tax bills they would require bus companies to pay for the use of city streets. Interstate truckers, for example, are taxed for use of the highways. In that case, street cars would again become cheaper to operate than buses.

Re: Why It's So Hard to Get From Brooklyn to Queens

#35
As a tramway lover that photo of stacked, decommissioned streetcars made me cry a little on the inside. Just a couple of hours ago, as I was preparing to enter a tramway in my (East-European) city, I saw a 4-year old pointing to the two tramways that were waiting in the station and telling his grandma how great that was. Streetcars (and trains) are just magical.

Re: Why It's So Hard to Get From Brooklyn to Queens

#36
post #31
post #25

Heh - I used to live in Greenpoint and would reverse commute up to Queens Plaza to avoid the "G to the L to the BDFQ" into midtown... On the contrary, Hoboken - where I now live - has a wealth of options to commute into both midtown and downtown NYC. Within a few blocks of my apartment: a subway trip of less than 20 mins to either Wall Street or 32nd (Midtown); ferry (a very pleasant 40 min trip to my office in the 4…

Same here, I live on the Jersey City waterfront and love the ferry commute. Hoboken and Jersey City are excellent places to live for a Manhattan job. We get to take advantage of the market inefficiency created by the "eww Jersey" popular image. Bonus, we dodge the NYC income tax which runs over 3% of income.

When are we having a hacker news JC readers meet up?

Re: Why It's So Hard to Get From Brooklyn to Queens

#37
post #35

As a tramway lover that photo of stacked, decommissioned streetcars made me cry a little on the inside. Just a couple of hours ago, as I was preparing to enter a tramway in my (East-European) city, I saw a 4-year old pointing to the two tramways that were waiting in the station and telling his grandma how great that was. Streetcars (and trains) are just magical.

[deleted]

Re: Why It's So Hard to Get From Brooklyn to Queens

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Build it? With whose money? The city's finances have been a disaster since 2008 and they've only been scraping by with a series of unsustainable tricks. The next mayor will almost certainly be Bill de Blasio, whose top agenda item is basically to spending a lot more money on the city's unionized labor. (His next agenda item is to revive rent control, because the War Emergency Tenant Protection Act apparently hasn't d…

The MTA is a state agency, so really you need to look at the state's budget, not the city's. I also have little sympathy for the argument that the MTA is too short on cash -- they have been wasting enormous amounts of tax dollars on failed projects for decades. Not that that should give us any hope for an expanded subway system.

Good point! Either way, the IND Second System routes can get in line behind the Second Avenue Subway.

Re: Why It's So Hard to Get From Brooklyn to Queens

#39
post #4

For comparison, a taxi or Uber between Queens and Brooklyn will run $40-$50 each way. Taking the F train through Manhattan takes over an hour.

Though I've never personally experienced it, perhaps due to following the advice, I've been repeatedly advised when trying to get around NYC to always get in the taxi before telling them my destination is in Brooklyn. This could be wrong, but the stated reason is that drivers don't want fares to Brooklyn (typically lower, and harder to get another fare who wants to go Brooklyn to someplace else for the return trip),…

Don't "look too Brooklyn," it's certainly a thing.

Re: Why It's So Hard to Get From Brooklyn to Queens

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Build it? With whose money? The city's finances have been a disaster since 2008 and they've only been scraping by with a series of unsustainable tricks. The next mayor will almost certainly be Bill de Blasio, whose top agenda item is basically to spending a lot more money on the city's unionized labor. (His next agenda item is to revive rent control, because the War Emergency Tenant Protection Act apparently hasn't d…

The MTA is a state agency, so really you need to look at the state's budget, not the city's. I also have little sympathy for the argument that the MTA is too short on cash -- they have been wasting enormous amounts of tax dollars on failed projects for decades. Not that that should give us any hope for an expanded subway system.

Are the state finances in any better shape?

The tolls on the new Tappen Zee bridge are expected to be $15, and even that might not be enough to fund it after the hole Coumo blew in the transportation budget after deciding to pillage a general fund instead of raising tolls for commercial vehicles last year.

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