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Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book

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Re: Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book

#11

Post by melling »

Who828 wrote: post #6
melling wrote: post #5

This was referenced in a HN article that I read in the past day. I checked out reviews and it seems like it's a bit dated. Many chapters are done in assembler, for example. Any recommendations on great books that cover OpenGL and game programming?

While I agree it's dated in lot of ways but it is still a great read. I am not a game dev but I love to write performant code, it's just a personal satisfaction when I know my code is making the best use of the hardware. I think you should read the first chapter at least, on how he approaches code optimization, first by design and then by code. This book teaches you to think like a performance programmer like no othe…

Yep, I'm sure there are still great nuggets in the book. Unfortunately it looks like I'm not going to get my question answered about modern OpenGL books because everyone just jumps in and says that you should still read Abrash's book.

John Carmack, for example, didn't write much of his games in assembler because he knew that he didn't have to. If you look at Doom, there wasn't a lot of assembler even back in the early 1990's.

https://github.com/id-Software/DOOM

And according to Carmack, he liked working in C and OpenGL.

http://rmitz.org/carmack.on.opengl.html

"With OpenGL, you can get something working with simple, straightforward code, then if it is warranted, you can convert to display lists or vertex arrays for max performance (although the difference usually isn't that large). This is the right way of doing things -- like converting your crucial functions to assembly language after doing all your development in C."

I actually have done some basic assembler so I do understatnd the benefits of keeping values in registers, etc. A lot of stuff really is architecture dependent, of course. ARM vs x86 will make a difference.

Anyway, where's the best place to start these days? Personally, I'd like to do some iOS stuff, and perhaps keep the same code running on Android.

Re: Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book

#13

Post by pandaman »

melling wrote: post #11
Who828 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree it's dated in lot of ways but it is still a great read. I am not a game dev but I love to write performant code, it's just a personal satisfaction when I know my code is making the best use of the hardware. I think you should read the first chapter at least, on how he approaches code optimization, first by design and then by code. This book teaches you to think like a performance programmer like no othe…

Yep, I'm sure there are still great nuggets in the book. Unfortunately it looks like I'm not going to get my question answered about modern OpenGL books because everyone just jumps in and says that you should still read Abrash's book. John Carmack, for example, didn't write much of his games in assembler because he knew that he didn't have to. If you look at Doom, there wasn't a lot of assembler even back in the earl…

I imagine you have already read the "red book" (Open GL Programming Guide) that pops on every search for "good OpenGL book" and are not satisfied?

Then I'd advice either reading a general rendering book or some GPU docs depending on your finding the book too easy or too hard.

Re: Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book

#14

Post by spitfire »

0x0 wrote: post #7
melling wrote: post #5

This was referenced in a HN article that I read in the past day. I checked out reviews and it seems like it's a bit dated. Many chapters are done in assembler, for example. Any recommendations on great books that cover OpenGL and game programming?

Not just a little dated, a lot of the examples are targeting 8086, 286, 386 or 486 CPUs, and EGA or Standard-VGA graphics cards (you know, those with 0.2MB ram) running on 16-bit MS-DOS. :) Back then this was a goldmine of tricks. But I'm sure the algorithm parts are still relevant.

He actually made the point right in the book that the code was obsolete from a use perspective. The relevance (even today) was in understanding how the computer works so you could make tradeoffs. I still remember the video 7 story at the beginning of one of the chapters.

Those are lessons that are still relevant today.

Re: Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book

#15

Post by ido »

melling wrote: post #11
Who828 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree it's dated in lot of ways but it is still a great read. I am not a game dev but I love to write performant code, it's just a personal satisfaction when I know my code is making the best use of the hardware. I think you should read the first chapter at least, on how he approaches code optimization, first by design and then by code. This book teaches you to think like a performance programmer like no othe…

Yep, I'm sure there are still great nuggets in the book. Unfortunately it looks like I'm not going to get my question answered about modern OpenGL books because everyone just jumps in and says that you should still read Abrash's book. John Carmack, for example, didn't write much of his games in assembler because he knew that he didn't have to. If you look at Doom, there wasn't a lot of assembler even back in the earl…

This isn't what you asked, but as a professional mobile game dev I can tell you that even c++ & opengl is too low level for what you need for most mobile games today, on android and ios.

There are a lot of options such as unity, haxe/openfl, adobe air, etc. Most of these are very easy to pick up by just reading one of the many online tutorials.

Re: Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book

#16

Post by melling »

pandaman wrote: post #13
melling wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I'm sure there are still great nuggets in the book. Unfortunately it looks like I'm not going to get my question answered about modern OpenGL books because everyone just jumps in and says that you should still read Abrash's book. John Carmack, for example, didn't write much of his games in assembler because he knew that he didn't have to. If you look at Doom, there wasn't a lot of assembler even back in the earl…

I imagine you have already read the "red book" (Open GL Programming Guide) that pops on every search for "good OpenGL book" and are not satisfied? Then I'd advice either reading a general rendering book or some GPU docs depending on your finding the book too easy or too hard.

You're recommending a book that gets 2.5 stars on Amazon?

http://www.amazon.com/OpenGL-Programming-Guide-Official-Lear...

When I googled it, the red book was not recommended. OpenGL 3.x has many changes that aren't covered?

http://www.gamedev.net/topic/601531-best-book-to-teach-openg...

[Update] Here are three good references that I extracted:

http://nopper.tv/norbert/opengl.html

http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-OpenGL-Programming-Second-Ed... -- Mixed reviews

http://www.amazon.com/OpenGL-SuperBible-Comprehensive-Tutori...

Re: Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book

#17

Post by brooksbp »

melling wrote: post #5

This was referenced in a HN article that I read in the past day. I checked out reviews and it seems like it's a bit dated. Many chapters are done in assembler, for example. Any recommendations on great books that cover OpenGL and game programming?

Instead of spending $$$, you should work through Learning Modern 3D Graphics Programming [1]--it's a great resource and should get you started on your way to building something more complex.

[1] http://www.arcsynthesis.org/gltut/

Re: Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book

#18

Post by jholman »

brooksbp wrote: post #17
melling wrote: post #5

This was referenced in a HN article that I read in the past day. I checked out reviews and it seems like it's a bit dated. Many chapters are done in assembler, for example. Any recommendations on great books that cover OpenGL and game programming?

Instead of spending $$$, you should work through Learning Modern 3D Graphics Programming [1]--it's a great resource and should get you started on your way to building something more complex. [1] http://www.arcsynthesis.org/gltut/

I particularly like chapters V and VI.

(snark-free version: that book would be a lot better if it was finished... note the last edit was over a year ago)

Re: Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book

#20

Post by pandaman »

melling wrote: post #16
pandaman wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine you have already read the "red book" (Open GL Programming Guide) that pops on every search for "good OpenGL book" and are not satisfied? Then I'd advice either reading a general rendering book or some GPU docs depending on your finding the book too easy or too hard.

You're recommending a book that gets 2.5 stars on Amazon? http://www.amazon.com/OpenGL-Programming-Guide-Official-Lear... When I googled it, the red book was not recommended. OpenGL 3.x has many changes that aren't covered? http://www.gamedev.net/topic/601531-best-book-to-teach-openg... [Update] Here are three good references that I extracted: http://nopper.tv/norbert/opengl.html http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-OpenG…

Red book is following the current version. I believe they had 3.x edition for a while. Anyways, why you'd care about 3.x if you are targeting iPhone/Android?
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