Live data from Hacker News

Busting IE8’s Mythbusting

geektechnica.com

11–20 of 36 posts

Re: Busting IE8’s Mythbusting

#11

First: I use Chrome. IE is an awful browser. IE8 is bearable. I think that the advertising campaign that they are using for IE8 is disingenuous and despicable. As a Microsoftie, I'm not proud of it. I'm going to let it slide simply because I want as many people as possible to upgrade from IE 6 and 7. I do, however, believe there are more honest ways to go about it. I think people have found my defensive insight into…

I always found it weird the file extension is .xht instead of .xhtml at as in http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS2.1/20061011/index.xht

I would never have guessed why.

Re: Busting IE8’s Mythbusting

#12
post #9
post #4

Complaint #1: its is a possessive; it's is a contraction for it is . (The author kept using its as if it meant it is .) Complaint #2: The author kept using the form: The Lie: The Truth: That's messed up. The "lie" should be what he thinks Microsoft got wrong. Complaint #3: The whole thing is just his opinions. It would be nice to link to some actual benchmark results, for example, rather than just countering Microsof…

Here's another test. Out of 10 browser versions tested, the only one that IE8 beat was IE7. http://service.futuremark.com/peacekeeper/browserStatistics....

That's unfair. It should be noted it also beats IE6.

Re: Busting IE8’s Mythbusting

#13
post #6

The IE8 comparison is very misleading. They give IE checkmarks for "security," "privacy," and "ease of use," where Firefox and Chrome get none. What, so Firefox and Chrome have ZERO security and privacy? Wow, thanks for warning me, Microsoft! The truth is that all three browsers have security and privacy features, which are too complex to be reduced to a single checkmark. Firefox at least gives some quantified argume…

You might be interested in this paper presented at SOSP on AjaxScope by some guys from Microsoft Research

http://www.sosp2007.org/papers/sosp095-kiciman.pdf

Check out page 2. Interesting table. IE7 is 3 orders of magnitude (i.e. 4870ms instead of 6ms, with Firefox 2.0 at 116) slower than Opera at String+ operations in Javascript.

It's interesting. AjaxScope is pretty neat as well.

Re: Busting IE8’s Mythbusting

#14

First: I use Chrome. IE is an awful browser. IE8 is bearable. I think that the advertising campaign that they are using for IE8 is disingenuous and despicable. As a Microsoftie, I'm not proud of it. I'm going to let it slide simply because I want as many people as possible to upgrade from IE 6 and 7. I do, however, believe there are more honest ways to go about it. I think people have found my defensive insight into…

Well, let's get real here. We know where this is going. Microsoft really needs to either a) give up on the browser business or b) rewrite/scrap IE. The previous PM of IE (can't be bothered to remember/google his name, maybe Dean) basically had a breakdown and a "please don't be mean to me" serious of blog posts. It's silly that a company like MS cannot build a browser that lives up to standards set by a project like Firefox (maintaining compatibility with badly written corporate apps targeted at IE5/IE6 is a non starter -- very simple technical solution).

Re: Busting IE8’s Mythbusting

#15
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's another test. Out of 10 browser versions tested, the only one that IE8 beat was IE7. http://service.futuremark.com/peacekeeper/browserStatistics....

That's unfair. It should be noted it also beats IE6.

But things may change as you do down the version ladder. I bet it is slower than IE 2 or 3.

Re: Busting IE8’s Mythbusting

#16

First: I use Chrome. IE is an awful browser. IE8 is bearable. I think that the advertising campaign that they are using for IE8 is disingenuous and despicable. As a Microsoftie, I'm not proud of it. I'm going to let it slide simply because I want as many people as possible to upgrade from IE 6 and 7. I do, however, believe there are more honest ways to go about it. I think people have found my defensive insight into…

I wrote this on Reddit recently:

"It's about control, which leads back up to money.

"Windows is the default OS and IE the default browser. This is also why IE is broken. Microsoft doesn't want IE to render the same as its contemporaries because then you don't need to test on IE anymore, which means you don't need Windows anymore.

"Microsoft controls things this way and it's been part of their corporate philosophy for a long time -- Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. They make something mostly compatible with the standard or competing product and then add proprietary extensions or quirks, and their marketshare alone forces people to take notice, and the hope is that eventually people will forget about the non-IE stuff and not bother to test on it anymore, meaning that now things don't work unless you have IE, meaning that you can't use the internet without Windows. That doesn't happen as often with the internet anymore, but as most of us know, it was quite successful for a pretty long time, and it's still successful for many non-web technologies (see DirectX v. OpenGL, etc.).

"And while things are no longer panning out to complete MS dominance, IE still plays a major role in defining what techs get on the web and what doesn't. For instance, crappy HTML 5 support because HTML 5 harms Silverlight. This is all intentional, don't fool yourself."

Not sure what you mean by "Microsoftie", but it'd be interesting to hear an MS advocate's or employee's position on this.

Re: Busting IE8’s Mythbusting

#17

First: I use Chrome. IE is an awful browser. IE8 is bearable. I think that the advertising campaign that they are using for IE8 is disingenuous and despicable. As a Microsoftie, I'm not proud of it. I'm going to let it slide simply because I want as many people as possible to upgrade from IE 6 and 7. I do, however, believe there are more honest ways to go about it. I think people have found my defensive insight into…

I wrote this on Reddit recently: "It's about control, which leads back up to money. "Windows is the default OS and IE the default browser. This is also why IE is broken. Microsoft doesn't want IE to render the same as its contemporaries because then you don't need to test on IE anymore, which means you don't need Windows anymore. "Microsoft controls things this way and it's been part of their corporate philosophy for…

Microsoft doesn't want IE to render the same as its contemporaries because then you don't need to test on IE anymore, which means you don't need Windows anymore.

Are you implying MS are purposely breaking IE in order to sell Windows licences to web developers? How many licenses exactly do you think are on the line here?

Re: Busting IE8’s Mythbusting

#18
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote this on Reddit recently: "It's about control, which leads back up to money. "Windows is the default OS and IE the default browser. This is also why IE is broken. Microsoft doesn't want IE to render the same as its contemporaries because then you don't need to test on IE anymore, which means you don't need Windows anymore. "Microsoft controls things this way and it's been part of their corporate philosophy for…

Microsoft doesn't want IE to render the same as its contemporaries because then you don't need to test on IE anymore, which means you don't need Windows anymore. Are you implying MS are purposely breaking IE in order to sell Windows licences to web developers? How many licenses exactly do you think are on the line here?

There's one here. I'm an Ubuntu user, but I have a paid copy of XP that I use in VMWare so I can test IE6 & 7.

EDIT: But I'm probably an outlier.

Re: Busting IE8’s Mythbusting

#19
post #6

The IE8 comparison is very misleading. They give IE checkmarks for "security," "privacy," and "ease of use," where Firefox and Chrome get none. What, so Firefox and Chrome have ZERO security and privacy? Wow, thanks for warning me, Microsoft! The truth is that all three browsers have security and privacy features, which are too complex to be reduced to a single checkmark. Firefox at least gives some quantified argume…

In "performance," they say, "hey, let's call it a tie!" Actual timed measurements of Javascript performance show that IE8 is WAY slower than the competition.

Plus neither of the links you posted tested Firefox 3.5 which has improved javascript performance which implies IE8 slips further behind.

Re: Busting IE8’s Mythbusting

#20
post #18
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft doesn't want IE to render the same as its contemporaries because then you don't need to test on IE anymore, which means you don't need Windows anymore. Are you implying MS are purposely breaking IE in order to sell Windows licences to web developers? How many licenses exactly do you think are on the line here?

There's one here. I'm an Ubuntu user, but I have a paid copy of XP that I use in VMWare so I can test IE6 & 7. EDIT: But I'm probably an outlier.

I'm not saying none exist. I have a windows machine that I use mostly for IE. But (a) I didn't buy it for that purpose, it already existed and (b) I would probably want to use sites I work on in IE even if it worked perfectly. It's the most popular browser. They don't have to break IE.
Post reply on HN