Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

501–510 of 554 posts

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#501

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

scholia wrote: post #385
aroch wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Google has not done this, Microsoft and Apple have. Google's Motorola Mobility has sued others based on patents in their portfolio.

This included Google trying to extort absurd sums for FRAND patents. I don't see how Google gets a free pass because that was its wholly-owned Motorola Mobility when Apple/Microsoft/RIM/etc don't get a free pass because Rockstar is an independent entity.

Google has only asserted patents against people that are trying to attack Android using patents. The previous two comments are absurd. You look at Google's patent litigation record and shit is crystal clear. Patents are being used defensively by them.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#502

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

gibwell wrote: post #401
keypusher wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google wanted these patents so that they would not be used aggressively against them. Google has no history of using patents against other companies aggressively. I'm on the side of the company that isn't using software patents to sue other companies, which in this case is Google. This isn't nearly as complicated as you are making it out to be.

False. Google uses parents aggressively through its wholly owned subsidiary, Motorola.

Wrong on all accounts. They use patents defensively against those that are suing to shut down Android.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#503

Post by sbuk »

cromwellian wrote: post #200
sbuk wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is actually cognitive dissonance. No matter what you say none of the parties deserve slack of any kind.

You can be anti-gun person, yet if someone invades your home with a gun, I'd cut them slack of they shot them. You can be for nuclear disarmament, yet still support mutually assured destruction until that happens. The point of Google using patents is that unless they apply pain to Apple and Microsoft, they will continue abusing the system. The only leverage to bring about reform or a peace treaty is to fight back. Ye…

You're not getting away with that. It's not OK to say one thing and do another. It called hypocracy and it's low and one thing that Google seem to be doing a lot of late. Here's the thing; Microsoft and Apple aren't abusing the system. They are playing exactly by its rules. Lodsys are a good example of an actor abusing the system. Is the system a bad one? That's a different debate.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#504

Post by nitrogen »

37prime wrote: post #55
bad_user wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Releasing a cheaper product is just free market competition. Suing for patents is abusing a government granted monopoly.

Microsoft did release a cheaper Web Browser than Netscape, back in the day.

...that was deeply entwined with their monopoly operating system.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#505

Post by jamesaguilar »

nathan_long wrote: post #358
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no longer competition about the best user experience or the best technical solution to an engineering problem but competition about who can file the best vague, yet court approved patent and secure the most destructive intellectual properties. I don't understand why we are still only talking about reforming the patent system. Seriously? iOS7 and Android Kit Kat both move user experience forward both in ter…

>> Yes patents are impacting the industry but that's not to say that competition about things users care about has stopped, it's just slowing things up a bit. I think "slowing things up a bit" is a great understatement. Hackers who could build the Next Big Thing have no chance at success if it takes a billion-dollar patent arsenal to avoid getting sued out of existence. Who wins this fight is a side issue. The real i…

And yet most people are somehow managing to avoid getting sued out of existence while still building amazing products in small companies and start ups.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#506

Post by masklinn »

nullc wrote: post #490
masklinn wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The operative word in cs705's comment is incentive . The patent system is broken in such a way that not only does it makes possible to get away with this behavior, it encourages and rewards it. That's very different than merely "making it possible".

Robbing homes is possible and rewarding. Saying that doing something wrong is rewarding is not sufficient.

> Saying that doing something wrong is rewarding is not sufficient.

Good thing "rewarding" was not used as a sufficient threshold for either cs705's comment or mine then.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#507

Post by anoncowherd »

stock_toaster wrote: post #463
ajross wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the operative word in pg's reply is " ok ". That Apple, MS, et. al. are acting in their objective self interest (and to the detriment of all of ours!) is an important point. But it doesn't speak to the moral issue which is that such behavior needs to be condemned and not excused.

If the system incentivizes this behavior, can a publicly traded corporation even choose to ignore it? Would shareholders be able to claim breach of fiduciary duties if they did? Note: I am certainly not arguing that this is a good thing for anyone by any means at all.

> can a publicly traded corporation even choose to ignore it? Would shareholders be able to claim breach of fiduciary duties if they did?

Patents are a weapon, and if one huge corporation has no "weapons" to defend itself with, then others with "weapons" will attack it. That's why they all have to participate.

In this case, they all - Google included - rushed towards a particularly juicy weapons cache, and whoever got their hands on it was going to use it on the others.

This is fucking ridiculous and disgusting, of course. But it's not the fault of these corporations - they're forced to play, because if one doesn't, then others will just force a massive competitive disadvantage on it. The real problem is the US patent system, the US courts, and the culture of feverish bullshit litigation at every turn that pervades the US.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#510

Post by cs702 »

pg wrote: post #439
cs702 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm unhappy with Apple and Microsoft too, but the real enemy is a broken patent system that creates the perverse incentives that motivate companies to launch lawsuits like this one, to the detriment of society. Regardless of who wins, we have already lost, because we have a patent system that discourages innovation and competition in software! Maybe the prospect of patent Armageddon will finally force lawmakers to ad…

It's certainly true that the patent system is broken. But the fact you can get away with doing something due to broken laws doesn't make it ok to do it.

You're right. It's not just the broken patent system. It's also the present business culture (for lack of a better term), which makes getting away with it seem OK to a lot of otherwise decent people in corporate America.
Post reply on HN