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I Bought An Apartment To Rent Out On Airbnb

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Re: I Bought An Apartment To Rent Out On Airbnb

#241

Post by mbreese »

mahyarm wrote: post #222
Retric wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your missing a huge one. Taxes, hotels in major city's often send 10+$ a day to the local government. And before people complain about this that money often pays for things like museums and convention centers which is why many people are going to the city in the first place. Edit: NY get's 10$ on a one room 140$ hotel room stay as it's $2.00 per day per room* + 5.875% of the rent. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/…

So if NYC just made airbnb charge the 5.875% tax, most of their complaints would go away? And by increasing the hotel supply, hotel prices would go down to better match actual long term renting? Then it would create a more liquid housing market enabled by computerized markets? It would still allow casual renting of people's houses that way.

No, their complaints aren't strictly about the missing tax revenue. There are other regulations that would need to be addressed (health, safety, etc...). Hotels are a heavily regulated industry with good reason. Regulations are a protection mechanism to protect the city/neighborhood and the consumer.

I think that there is a clear difference between renting out a room or occasionally renting your entire place, versus keeping a separate apartment strictly for renting out on AirBnB.

Re: I Bought An Apartment To Rent Out On Airbnb

#242

Post by _delirium »

ubernostrum wrote: post #155
flycaliguy wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buddy just asked a question that solicited an informative answer for all of us to read. Not sad.

The general "sad" for me is that HN has so many strong libertarian types who start from an assumption that government regulation is practically always wrong and done for corrupt purposes. Learning that this is not the case is a lesson one could easily pick up much earlier in life, so it's sad that they made it this far without understanding that.

I put it down to the poor state of our mathematical education. The naive understanding of economic systems libertarians display is actually fairly similar to what you see in introductory dynamical-systems courses. You can, with great care, construct some "well-behaved" systems where you present a set of rules, and the expected thing happens: you push lever X and Y happens. Raise the minimum wage and unemployment rises!

But of course, most systems are not so well-behaved, so that is only a lead-in to the real examples, where you change the setup slightly and suddenly analysis grows more complex. Now what happens when you push lever X depends on what region of the state-space you're in! And sometimes pushing lever X can change the region of the state-space you're in, too! There is feedback and internal dynamics. I see very little libertarian economics that displays even a 101-level understanding of any of that.

Re: I Bought An Apartment To Rent Out On Airbnb

#243

Post by baddox »

_delirium wrote: post #233
JesseAldridge wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airbnb's review system fills the roll of licenser.

Does AirBnB's review system let neighbors to the property file negative reviews?

Do potential AirBnb customers care about the opinions of neighbors? Also, does government regulation/zoning let neighbors file reviews?

Re: I Bought An Apartment To Rent Out On Airbnb

#244

Post by mbreese »

benatkin wrote: post #238
mooreds wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hy HOA (not in Nevada) has this exact same clause, and when I read about this, I wondered what his HOA would say. If I were an HOA, I'd be pretty concerned about AirBNB.

If I worked for the HOA and I saw this I would try to figure out if anyone knows I saw it. If not, I would ignore it. It's technically against the rules but OP seems to be doing a good job of managing it, and I doubt I could apply a higher standard to the rest of the units. I'd wait for a resident to bring the issue to me, which would hopefully never happen. If I managed a ritzier condo complex I'd probably do someth…

It's probably an insurance coverage issue, so ignoring it wouldn't be a good idea. Especially if the insurance company feels that you should have known about it.

Re: I Bought An Apartment To Rent Out On Airbnb

#246

Post by baddox »

dsl wrote: post #230
omonra wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument presumes that an extended-stay hotel needs to be licensed. I don't buy it.

Well seeing as you'd be obligated to collect things like hotel occupancy taxes in most cities and states, and all sorts of consumer protection laws apply to hotels, the reasonable assumption is licensing is required. At the minimum, you need a business licence.

I don't think it's a reasonable assumption.

Re: I Bought An Apartment To Rent Out On Airbnb

#247

Post by baddox »

tptacek wrote: post #179
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or having a guest house on your property and running a Craigslist ad to rent it out for the summer. At what point does somebody giving me money in return for staying on my property turn my property into a hotel? I'm not talking the legal definition, I'm talking common sense. The only working definition I can come up with is "when you reach a scale where the government can start taking a cut" Back in the old days, tha…

Easy: at the point where your sole use of the property is for short-term rentals.

You just deferred the problem to the definition of "sole."

Re: I Bought An Apartment To Rent Out On Airbnb

#248

Post by _delirium »

baddox wrote: post #243
_delirium wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does AirBnB's review system let neighbors to the property file negative reviews?

Do potential AirBnb customers care about the opinions of neighbors? Also, does government regulation/zoning let neighbors file reviews?

> Also, does government regulation/zoning let neighbors file reviews?

Yes, that's part of the point of it. I live in an apartment building. My neighbor, who lives the next door down from me, lives in another residential apartment. We get along fine. However, we would get along considerably less fine if he were to open a dance club, a restaurant, or a hotel in his apartment. It is zoned residential, so this is not an issue. But I would be very interested if there were a proposal to change this zoning, because the situation of sharing a thin wall with a household, versus sharing one with a techno club or a hotel or a cinema, differs considerably. And indeed, there is a mandatory public notice and comment period if there were a proposal to change the zoning. If it were allowed at all, they would likely be required to upgrade the noise insulation, in the case of a hotel to have regular inspections for bedbugs, etc.

I am not aware of AirBnB running a similar consultation process where they give me public notice that my neighbor plans to turn his place into a full-time hotel room, and allows me to file objections. I also suspect the rigor of their health oversight is lacking.

Re: I Bought An Apartment To Rent Out On Airbnb

#249

Post by jasonwocky »

scott_karana wrote: post #107
feverishaaron wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this any different than VRBO, or any of the other vacation rental middlemen out there?

I suspect the difference (at least in the case of NY) is lack of regulation and kickbacks (sorry, taxes) for the local government.

If you want to visit my city and see its sights, you can "kick back" into the damn kitty that it takes to keep those sights maintained.

Re: I Bought An Apartment To Rent Out On Airbnb

#250

Post by abalashov »

baddox wrote: post #247
tptacek wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy: at the point where your sole use of the property is for short-term rentals.

You just deferred the problem to the definition of "sole."

Indeed, for many Airbnb hosts occupy their property at least part of the time. In fact, I think that's the niche it has filled best. There were already rental agencies (indeed, online ones!) to deal with permanent short-term rental properties. Airbnb offered a particularly hassle-free conduit for those who just want to rent their property out some of the time, such as folks who have multiple properties in various locations, occupy it seasonally, travel a lot for work, live abroad part-time, etc.
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