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Riot.js – A 1kb client-side MVP framework

moot.it

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Re: Riot.js – A 1kb client-side MVP framework

#121

Post by mattgreenrocks »

nilliams wrote: post #119
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry! I'm not trashing these projects at all. They're very impressive. (Aside: I don't think it's healthy to be as invested as you are in random Internet comments.) But, as you said, there is hype/publicity with OSS. I wanted to emphasize that is not a pure meritocracy, even within OSS. If people aren't ready for your project, then it won't be adopted, regardless of how good it is. It is very similar to consumer tec…

> Aside: I don't think it's healthy to be as invested as you are in random Internet comments. Probably :) Of course though, I do think we should all be aware there are people on the receiving end of these comments we casually fire at frameworks that have worked crazy hard on those projects. (Listen to this episode of The Changelog with the maintainer of Capistrano if you want to hear some evidence of the effects of t…

I hear you.

I think I'm discussing the celebrity culture around these frameworks more than the frameworks themselves. I don't have a problem with them technically, they're a bit beyond what I could make. But I don't want to see classical notions of program design phased out in favor of "just use X." The ideas of what makes software malleable, pleasant to maintain, and grow are quite old.

Re: Riot.js – A 1kb client-side MVP framework

#122

Post by woah »

namuol wrote: post #58

How hard would it be to remove the jQuery dependency? It looks like it really only needs $.on/$.off/$.one/$.emit, which could surely cut the actual size down a lot from 94kb.

Someone needs to get started on breaking JQ down into it's component pieces. So much in there that I never use.

Re: Riot.js – A 1kb client-side MVP framework

#123

Post by woah »

conorwade wrote: post #97

Completely ignoring the technical aspects of the framework. The branding being used looks like a rip-off of Riot the design and development studio in England. http://riothq.com

THEY'RE BOTH RIPPING OFF OWS http://occupywallst.org/! Power to the people.

Re: Riot.js – A 1kb client-side MVP framework

#124

Post by tipiirai »

dmackerman wrote: post #115

It looks like a nice little library. Unfortunately, most of these "micro super fast i can build a todo app in 4 lines of code" things aren't enough anymore. Most of us aren't building "Todo" apps. We're building bigger apps which require - or are more suitable - for a framework like Angular/Ember. That's just my 2 cents.

Moot is a complete discussion system built with Riot / MVP. There is no other app than Todo MVC to make comparisons.

Re: Riot.js – A 1kb client-side MVP framework

#125

Post by nilliams »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #121
nilliams wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aside: I don't think it's healthy to be as invested as you are in random Internet comments. Probably :) Of course though, I do think we should all be aware there are people on the receiving end of these comments we casually fire at frameworks that have worked crazy hard on those projects. (Listen to this episode of The Changelog with the maintainer of Capistrano if you want to hear some evidence of the effects of t…

I hear you. I think I'm discussing the celebrity culture around these frameworks more than the frameworks themselves. I don't have a problem with them technically, they're a bit beyond what I could make. But I don't want to see classical notions of program design phased out in favor of "just use X." The ideas of what makes software malleable, pleasant to maintain, and grow are quite old.

Agreed.

Re: Riot.js – A 1kb client-side MVP framework

#126

Post by sorich87 »

tipiirai wrote: post #114
jashkenas wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And sadly, with great pain, I rest my case. --- But hey, if you want to try out a hot new framework that Fits in A Tweet™, I've got something special for you. Announcing Revolution.js It's a mere fraction the size of Riot.js, and provides over 100 times the functionality. Despite the unbelievable size, all the building blocks are there: a template engine, router, event library and a strict MVP pattern to keep things…

I seriously thought you could do better than this. I was expecting trolly responses from other framework communities but not from Backbone. I prefer reasoning and proper conversation instead of this hate speech that the framework communities are all over. I was hoping you were closer to a scientist. So far no reasonable arguments why Backbone is better. Is it just larger, slower and less effective? I was expecting yo…

This looks like hate speech:

> Current frameworks persuade false beliefs with shiny websites and finely crafted marketing without transparent, scientific analysis. They solve hypothetical problems and cause new problems instead. Unfortunately, large communities are dealing with irrelevant issues.

You're telling jashkenas (indirectly) that he "persuade false beliefs", "without scientific analysis", that he's solving "hypothetical problems" and "dealing with irrelevant issues" and plenty of other things like that... and what response do you expect from him?

> I was hoping you were closer to a scientist.

You already told him he's not a scientist, see above.

P.S.: I don't follow any "religion". I use framework or plain JavaScript depending on the project, and I find it sad when anyone promotes their solution as the only good one.

Re: Riot.js – A 1kb client-side MVP framework

#127

Post by ganarajpr »

tipiirai wrote: post #67
aidos wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like a nice little library to me and I think it would probably be a really reasonable choice for a lot of apps. It stays close to what people are already familiar with (jquery). It handles a pain point in terms of model data change notifications. I wouldn't take the criticism to heart. The bit about bragging about how fast and small it is will always create friction - especially when another big library is n…

Riot has less boilerplate than Angular on the Todo MVC implementation.

This is utter BS.

Riot's TodoMVC - 59 LOC html, 185 LOC js.

Angulars TodoMVC - 70 LOC html , 145 LOC js. ( I DINT even discount the extra lines used for comments and stuff - which angulars has quite a lot of ! ) . https://github.com/tastejs/todomvc/tree/gh-pages/architectur...

The other implementation is 71 html and 162 js. https://github.com/tastejs/todomvc/tree/gh-pages/architectur...

Stop claiming that your "framework" allows writing less loc.

There are sooo many useful constructs that all these frameworks provide. I generally abhor Backbone for its "minimalistic" approach. But looks like even jashkenas is taking issue to what you are doing here.

You are saying that / claiming that - me / we are soo damn good that we can do in <1KB what a whole bunch of developers have not been able to do in xKB where x is a larger number.

Re: Riot.js – A 1kb client-side MVP framework

#128

Post by leokun »

tipiirai wrote: post #28
leokun wrote: post #24

Precompilation renders template rendering speeds...moot. What a weird factor to use for choosing a template engine. Also there already is a popular unit test framework called riot.js

> Precompilation renders template rendering speeds. Not 100% sure what you mean but if you measure the time to render a HTML fragment 100 times the total time is 1 x pre-compilation + 100 x rendering. The pre-compilation has virtually no effect on the total time.

I mean that if you do the HTML parsing to JavaScript portion as part of your deploy, instead of in the browser at render time, then all you're measuring is string concatenation and HTML render times, which should always be the same. Template rendering speeds in that case mean nothing.

Re: Riot.js – A 1kb client-side MVP framework

#129

Post by shmageggy »

woah wrote: post #122
namuol wrote: post #58

How hard would it be to remove the jQuery dependency? It looks like it really only needs $.on/$.off/$.one/$.emit, which could surely cut the actual size down a lot from 94kb.

Someone needs to get started on breaking JQ down into it's component pieces. So much in there that I never use.

https://www.google.com/search?q=jquery+build

Re: Riot.js – A 1kb client-side MVP framework

#130

Post by camus2 »

tipiirai wrote: post #67
aidos wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like a nice little library to me and I think it would probably be a really reasonable choice for a lot of apps. It stays close to what people are already familiar with (jquery). It handles a pain point in terms of model data change notifications. I wouldn't take the criticism to heart. The bit about bragging about how fast and small it is will always create friction - especially when another big library is n…

Riot has less boilerplate than Angular on the Todo MVC implementation.

> Riot has less boilerplate than Angular on the Todo MVC implementation.

why are you lying and thinking you can get away with that ?

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