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Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

arstechnica.com

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Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#291

Post by FridayWithJohn »

I'm busy reading "The Masters of Doom". Here is a little snippet all about patents with one of the world's best developers of all time, John Carmack. "Carmack turned red. “If you ever ask me to patent anything,” he snapped, “I’ll quit.” Al assumed Carmack was trying to protect his own financial interests, but in reality he had struck what was an increasingly raw nerve for the young, idealistic programmer. It was one of the few things that could truly make him angry. It was ingrained in his bones since his first reading of the Hacker Ethic."

As a developer there is nothing more destructive than to be be told you can't do that... it is similar to what I did.

Could you imagine what would happen if someone put a patient on breathing?

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#292

Post by FridayWithJohn »

I'm busy reading "The Masters of Doom". Here is a little snippet all about patents with one of the world's best developers of all time, John Carmack. "Carmack turned red. “If you ever ask me to patent anything,” he snapped, “I’ll quit.” Al assumed Carmack was trying to protect his own financial interests, but in reality he had struck what was an increasingly raw nerve for the young, idealistic programmer. It was one of the few things that could truly make him angry. It was ingrained in his bones since his first reading of the Hacker Ethic."

As a developer there is nothing more destructive than to be be told you can't do that... it is similar to what I did.

Could you imagine what would happen if someone put a patient on breathing?

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#293

Post by sgift »

blumkvist wrote: post #277
air wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think separating good guys and bad guys is pretty simple, if one is against (at least software) patents: Using patents aggressively makes you a bad guy. Google has not done this, Microsoft and Apple have.

This is according to some moral code or what? The world doesn't abide a set of moral rules. Rules are made by people who can't win without them. You can't tell everybody to stick it and start entering several industries at once. In the real world you have to be cooperative, as well as persistent, because you are not the only 800-pound gorilla.

> Rules are made by people who can't win without them.

What's that? The official motto of all bullys and anarchists?

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#294

Post by IBM »

air wrote: post #288
IBM wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They haven't done it because they don't have many patents. It's easy to act noble about how you'll use your patents when you don't have any. Other commenters have noted that Google is currently suing Apple and others over standards essential patents (no just because the lawsuit started before their acquisition closed doesn't mean anything, they could settle or withdraw their case). Google had the opportunity to join…

Because Google bought Motorola after Motorola-Apple fight started, the aggressor is a bit more complicated, but still pretty clear cut to me: Whichever side that is not willing to end the patent fight (without payments to either side) is the aggressor. And it seems to me Apple is the one not willing to quit.

Well considering Apple was willing to actually pay a small amount rather than no payment at all, I don't see how you can see them as the aggressor. Motorola clearly stated that they wanted more for it.

It seems like Google had more control over whether that lawsuit was filed than I thought. From FOSS Patents:

>A few months after that Zeitgeist talk, in January 2012, Google authorized a Motorola Mobility lawsuit against Apple over six patents in the Southern District of Florida. The merger agreement was publicly available and absolutely unequivocal about the fact that Motorola needed Google's consent prior to bringing new IP assertions while the merger was under antitrust review.

EDIT: Since it's not letting me reply to your comment, gonna post it here.

If you're talking about Motorola vs. Apple in general now, clearly Apple wasn't the aggressor. Motorola was the first to sue over patents prompting Apple to counter-sue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Mobility_v._Apple_Inc.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#295

Post by air »

blumkvist wrote: post #277
air wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think separating good guys and bad guys is pretty simple, if one is against (at least software) patents: Using patents aggressively makes you a bad guy. Google has not done this, Microsoft and Apple have.

This is according to some moral code or what? The world doesn't abide a set of moral rules. Rules are made by people who can't win without them. You can't tell everybody to stick it and start entering several industries at once. In the real world you have to be cooperative, as well as persistent, because you are not the only 800-pound gorilla.

Well, if you want to label good guys and bad guys, you need some rules to judge them with. In this case the moral code for me is that software patents are bad and whoever abuses them is in the wrong.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#296

Post by mtgx »

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #224
pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

This may be true, but let's not get fooled into thinking that because "they" are the enemy, Google must be our friend. Google is playing a very dubious game here, and it has nothing to do with being on "our" side of the patent issue. They've tried to buy the same patents, refused to participate in a joint effort to safeguard those patents for all, and then knowingly violated those patents. All through this, they've b…

> refused to participate in a joint effort to safeguard those patents for all

Source? you're not confusing these with the Novell patents, are you?

Either way, this is the worst case of patent trolling, and may even raise anti-trust issues. Speaking of which, weren't they specifically told not to sue and gang up on other companies when they bought these?

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#297

Post by WildUtah »

linuxhansl wrote: post #131

Somebody please show me a single patent on software or a so called business-process that is worth anything (i.e. not obvious to somebody skilled in the art). Just one... I'll shut up then. Patents were supposed to encourage innovation, now they are doing the opposite (at least for software and business processes) and causing billions of wasted dollars and fat bonuses for patent lawyers. This move seems a bit desperat…

Just one good non-obvious software patent?

US Pat #4,200,770 Diffie Hellman public key exchange

There are literally dozens, maybe hundreds of good software patents out of the 500,000 or so that have been issued.

We'd all be much better off without any software patents at all but it's not true that they are all fraudulent and abusive like the ones in these lawsuits. A small fraction are decent. Of course the innovations involved in those few patents would all have been discovered and published without patents as an incentive, because that's how software works.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#298

Post by air »

IBM wrote: post #294
air wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Google bought Motorola after Motorola-Apple fight started, the aggressor is a bit more complicated, but still pretty clear cut to me: Whichever side that is not willing to end the patent fight (without payments to either side) is the aggressor. And it seems to me Apple is the one not willing to quit.

Well considering Apple was willing to actually pay a small amount rather than no payment at all, I don't see how you can see them as the aggressor. Motorola clearly stated that they wanted more for it. It seems like Google had more control over whether that lawsuit was filed than I thought. From FOSS Patents: >A few months after that Zeitgeist talk, in January 2012, Google authorized a Motorola Mobility lawsuit again…

You forget that Apple has their own patent suits against Motorola that they are not dropping. Ending the fight would mean that both drop their patent suits. Seems to me that GoogleMotorola wants this and Apple doesn't.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#299

Post by tehabe »

The problem is not if Google or Apple, Microsoft & Co. are good or evil. This patent war is evil, very evil. Because it could prevent companies like Jolla, Canonical or Mozilla to release their smart phone OS world wide.

Especially small companies won't have a chance in a patent battle against a Apple, Microsoft or Google proxy.

That is the biggest problem, and the solution has to be political, it won't be reached in the courts or on the market but in parliament.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#300

Post by mtgx »

IBM wrote: post #294
air wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Google bought Motorola after Motorola-Apple fight started, the aggressor is a bit more complicated, but still pretty clear cut to me: Whichever side that is not willing to end the patent fight (without payments to either side) is the aggressor. And it seems to me Apple is the one not willing to quit.

Well considering Apple was willing to actually pay a small amount rather than no payment at all, I don't see how you can see them as the aggressor. Motorola clearly stated that they wanted more for it. It seems like Google had more control over whether that lawsuit was filed than I thought. From FOSS Patents: >A few months after that Zeitgeist talk, in January 2012, Google authorized a Motorola Mobility lawsuit again…

These patents are also FRAND patents from what I can tell, so I wonder how long it will take for the governments to intervene.
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