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Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

arstechnica.com

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Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#251

Post by air »

bowlofpetunias wrote: post #224
pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

This may be true, but let's not get fooled into thinking that because "they" are the enemy, Google must be our friend. Google is playing a very dubious game here, and it has nothing to do with being on "our" side of the patent issue. They've tried to buy the same patents, refused to participate in a joint effort to safeguard those patents for all, and then knowingly violated those patents. All through this, they've b…

I think separating good guys and bad guys is pretty simple, if one is against (at least software) patents:

Using patents aggressively makes you a bad guy.

Google has not done this, Microsoft and Apple have.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#252

Post by _djo_ »

makomk wrote: post #237
threeseed wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please. Stop acting like Google is some innocent child. It's pathetic. Google has been using SEPs as weapons and undermining standards and the huge benefits they bring to humanity.

If I were to blame one company for undermining standards, it'd be Apple for consistently refusing to license standards-essential patents and Obama for protecting Apple. Remember, the reason all their other competitors have so many standards-essential patents and Apple have essentially none is because the other companies worked to develop those standards and Apple just came along years later and took the benefit of th…

Apple has a fair number of standards-essential patents as well, but they have not been used in a lawsuit to date. These include networking patents (notably zeroconf) and are always made available by Apple via the following statement:

In the event that the technology discussed in the Document becomes an IETF standard (the "Standard") which is not materially different from the Document, Apple agrees, upon written request from a Party to negotiate outside of IETF to make available a non-exclusive license under reasonable and non-discriminatory ("RAND") terms and conditions under such claims of the Patents that are essential to implement a product compliant with the Standard (a "Compliant Product"). These RAND terms and conditions may be conditional upon a reciprocal grant or defense use.

However it has yet to demand reciprocal grants of design patents from others for licensing.

The company has not refused to license SEPs, it has refused to license them with a cross-patent agreement that includes their design patents, as their view is that SEPs should be offered on fair monetary licensing terms.

That does not necessarily mean their stance is right (or that Apple is innocent because they're quite clearly not), but it's a lot more complex and defensible than you've implied here.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#253

Post by reticulated »

midko wrote: post #250
bowlofpetunias wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be true, but let's not get fooled into thinking that because "they" are the enemy, Google must be our friend. Google is playing a very dubious game here, and it has nothing to do with being on "our" side of the patent issue. They've tried to buy the same patents, refused to participate in a joint effort to safeguard those patents for all, and then knowingly violated those patents. All through this, they've b…

> "very dubious game" Quite a statement especially on the background of the other companies involved. Any substantial arguments for that? Until recently, Google had not filed even a single patent lawsuit [1] and so far still has not done so against Apple, MS, and the like, afaik. Meanwhile, the 'rockstars' have been going rampant [2]. [1] http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/02/google-files-first-patent... [2] https://en.…

Just because it's not in Google's name: http://www.fosspatents.com/search/label/Motorola

Edit: Ah, I see you edited when you spotted Google had in fact filed suit.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#255

Post by tluyben2 »

Like many have said already; how do you vote with a wallet when there is not so much choice. I need a new laptop; my macbook, after many (by apple and by myself) repairs, is falling apart. It's fast enough, but just broken. So I was going to get the 13 inch retina, but now I'm rethinking my position. But what is the alternative... I haven't seen much yet. I want long battery life, i7 4th gen, 13 inch and at least retina resolution. So Pixel, Ativ 9 pro, Yoga 2 pro, ... ? But I also don't want Windows; I don't want to pay for it. Problem... I know the thinkpad t440s has long battery life, i7 4th gen, linux can be installed(still pay for windows), but the resolution (& GPU) are simply too depressing.

The tablet + phone. Firefox phone; I'll get one of those. Tablet? Are there any which you can buy now?

I really would just like to see Ubuntu on everything; tablet, phone and laptop, but I guess that's not really an option. I say Ubuntu because it's the most obvious; when Ubuntu is on there I know I can replace it with another Linux and I can customize it at least.

Like someone said; we cry here, but we all buy macbooks anyway. While a lot of us have the power to actually change things. If 100.000 people ask Lenovo for a Linux laptop, it'll probably come. Besides MS pressure (which is probably 100% of the reason) I wouldn't see why they wouldn't all offer the choice. It's just not popular enough; check any video on any startup site on HN: everyone has macbooks.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#256

Post by fpgeek »

daviddumenil wrote: post #245
buro9 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all members are equal parties and it's not hard to feel that the leaders in this group are Microsoft and Apple. They have the means, the motivation, and both have track record. Blackberry are in no place to do this, Ericsson haven't been of this nature, and whilst Sony could they have enough distraction going on at the moment to focus their attention elsewhere. I also feel those three would gleefully follow Apple…

It's worth noting that although the lawsuits were issued yesterday, the consortium was finalised in June 2011 when all of the group members were strongly involved in non-Android smartphones. It's not unreasonable to suspect that this action was planned as part of that formation and priced into the bid.

I'm not sure about Sony. I can't remember any non-Android smartphones they had in 2011.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#259

Post by fpgeek »

gaius wrote: post #232
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me the issue isn't marketing itself. It's that in order to show me personalized ads they need to know a lot about me. They have to compile and store a personal profile that can be stolen or subpoenaed by anyone who is sufficiently capable or powerful. But I agree that there is a dilemma. The alternative to ad based business models is to make a payment via a credit card, which identifies me even more directly and…

Microsoft and Apple make money by selling actual products. Google makes money by selling you .

Do you really think Microsoft and Apple don't sell "you" too?

They have (admittedly less-successful) advertising businesses that they show no signs of abandoning, they boast about the number of accounts and/or the number of credit cards they have for developers and partners and so on.

To a first approximation "everybody" wants your money and "everybody" sells you. Generalizations don't work. You need to look at the bundles that come with products/ecosystems on a case-by-case basis.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#260

Post by midko »

reticulated wrote: post #253
midko wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "very dubious game" Quite a statement especially on the background of the other companies involved. Any substantial arguments for that? Until recently, Google had not filed even a single patent lawsuit [1] and so far still has not done so against Apple, MS, and the like, afaik. Meanwhile, the 'rockstars' have been going rampant [2]. [1] http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/02/google-files-first-patent... [2] https://en.…

Just because it's not in Google's name: http://www.fosspatents.com/search/label/Motorola Edit: Ah, I see you edited when you spotted Google had in fact filed suit.

Not sure what edit you are referring to, my original post already stated that until recently they haven't filed a lawsuit.
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