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Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

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Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#221

Post by chubot »

pedalpete wrote: post #99
pinaceae wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google threw the gauntlet when it took a billion dollar investment into a mobile OS and gave it away for free. these dumping tactics ruined the market for licensed OS like Windows. did anybody truly believe the rest of the software industry would take it up the ass from google without fighting back? bing, apple maps, patents, etc - all part of the war. how much money does MS already make off android due to lost paten…

It's called strategy, and from Google's standpoint, it's a brilliant one. Seems to be working very well for them, while keeping competitors at bay. With regards to Schmidt on Apple's board, you're not the first to mention it here, as I responded to another comment, Apple was really dumb in this instance. Google bought Android in 2005, Apple brought Eric Schmidt onto it's board in 2006. So, either Apple was hoping to…

I'm sure Steve Jobs was aware of that potential conflict -- he was pretty shrewd after all :). It's was probably along the lines of "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer."

Plus he wanted the iPhone maps at launch, and probably a few other things which he could only get from Google. Steve had been around the block, and screwed many people over himself. His outrage was calculated.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#222

Post by muyuu »

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

I'm not too sure. People have very short memories and attention spans. Companies are callous one day and in a few weeks most people cannot even remember about it.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#223

Post by Joeri »

cloudwalking wrote: post #212
shin_lao wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is how things will turn out. People will like Google less and less because you can't do anything without them and there is no alternative, and what will happen to Google is exactly what happened to Microsoft: antitrust lawsuits, patents lawsuits, etc. This is not because Google is "evil" or anything, just because they are #1 and therefore are target for more and more people. In the end, this is all…

But Android is the alternative to the Apple hegemony. You can't get an iPhone for $50 in Asia, but you can get a $50 Android phone.

No, iphone and windows phone are the alternatives to google's > 80% hegemony at this point. Still, google is a far nicer market owner than apple or microsoft ever were. They don't abuse their dominant position, which is why their competitors are forced to take private legal action instead of running to the government for help.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#224

Post by bowlofpetunias »

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

This may be true, but let's not get fooled into thinking that because "they" are the enemy, Google must be our friend.

Google is playing a very dubious game here, and it has nothing to do with being on "our" side of the patent issue. They've tried to buy the same patents, refused to participate in a joint effort to safeguard those patents for all, and then knowingly violated those patents.

All through this, they've been silent about their motives, and have even tried to mislead the public by claiming they were never invited to join.

There are no "good guys" in this conflict, no sides any of us should be on.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#225

Post by cloudwalking »

Joeri wrote: post #223
cloudwalking wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Android is the alternative to the Apple hegemony. You can't get an iPhone for $50 in Asia, but you can get a $50 Android phone.

No, iphone and windows phone are the alternatives to google's > 80% hegemony at this point. Still, google is a far nicer market owner than apple or microsoft ever were. They don't abuse their dominant position, which is why their competitors are forced to take private legal action instead of running to the government for help.

Google doesn't have >80% of the market. Android has >80% of the market. Google does not control Android. Yes, Google provides a lot of services for Android users, but Android works fine without Google services.

Everybody is so quick to forget about "Android fragmentation," but fragmentation is a clear indicator of Google's lack of control over Android.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#226

Post by fauigerzigerk »

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #201

Anytime I see the latest "outrage" on HN, I laugh and remember us, citizens of my country that want to protest as long as they are not required to personally sacrifice too much. Most of these companies depend on you hackers (I do not write code) to be successful. If you decide to pull your apps from the app store, stop buying their products and write a post telling everyone why you made the move, they will be hurt. E…

I disagree completely. Protesting against these things (i.e participating in the latest outrage on HN and elsewhere) without sacrificing your entire livelihood is exactly the right thing to do.

Being cynical about these things is what changes nothing, or rather it changes things for the worse. In countries where everyone is resigned into the idea that every government official is always going to be corrupt and every company will always be criminal are usually very poor.

This isn't a war that is won or lost in the short term. We're all in this for long haul, we have to live with it and still try to move the balance in the right direction.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#227

Post by ishansharma »

Joeri wrote: post #223
cloudwalking wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Android is the alternative to the Apple hegemony. You can't get an iPhone for $50 in Asia, but you can get a $50 Android phone.

No, iphone and windows phone are the alternatives to google's > 80% hegemony at this point. Still, google is a far nicer market owner than apple or microsoft ever were. They don't abuse their dominant position, which is why their competitors are forced to take private legal action instead of running to the government for help.

Isn't it more like "they can't abuse their dominant position" because Samsung etc. can just fork Android in that case and go away. Yes, it will take resources but Amazon has already done it.

I don't think they are more responsible, they have to be this way. When given dominance, they also use it to get you signed up for other products. See Google+, it is not is search, you need it on Youtube and what not!

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#228

Post by hengheng »

bad_user wrote: post #210
__david__ wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true, but it would be misplaced. I think we should channel our outrage into changing the screwy US patent system so this kind of stuff would become moot.

No. Voting with your wallet works. We need to start treating companies like they are members of our society - if one of your neighbours turns out to be a jackass to your other neighbours, do you tolerate him just because, hey, he just wants to make a profit? Fuck that. Companies must learn to play nice and it's insane to treat them differently than we treat people. It's a huge double standard and if you expect the sy…

Well the problem with boycot is you will find some reason to boycot one of the big players every week. When everyone does their ranking at their yearly smartphone purchase, the whole boycot becomes intransparent.

If there were an association of smartphone vendors, a club of app developers or a federation of tech bloggers, saying "Don't do this or we'll stop to support you", this would work out very differently.

You can meet even large corporations at eye level. Just find their vulnerable points, it's easy.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#229

Post by Joeri »

x0x0 wrote: post #178
pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

but say I want a smartphone, what is my alternative? google, who works harder and harder to sell everything I do to advertisers (now you can't even rate apps w/o a google+ account), and who just shut off transmitting search data so they can screw site owners for more $? microsoft, who is a party to this and actively worked to make the internet worse (and succeeded!) for the better part of a decade? or apple, who at l…

Microsoft earns $10 per android handset, they make more from android than windows phone. So regardless of whether you buy windows phone or android you're paying microsoft. Apple and microsoft have a long-standing patent sharing arrangement, so they don't pay each other money. So, you can pay apple or pay microsoft to get access to a smartphone. Given the amount of patents they hold, any smartphone os is either flying under their radar or in their sights. If firefox or ubuntu succeed with their phone OS, they will get sued.

The problem is not these companies, it's the regulatory climate. Until we defang technology patents it will remain like this, with only a few tollkeepers who own the market.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#230

Post by Munksgaard »

dchichkov wrote: post #98
ekianjo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Don't buy Macs" is not going to work well around here. Most HNers develop software on Mac and see it as the ideal development platform. I'd say they don't care about what Apple does (it's not the first time Apple does that either).

Linux is an ideal development platform. Mac is an ideal procrastination platform ;)

With the amount of procrastination that happens on my Linux computer, I fear the day I'll have to work on a Mac...
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