I have an honest and serious question -- who are the developers and designers who put these systems into place for the NSA? Are they aware of what they're doing or is it all classified and contracted out? Are they proud of their work? Is it just a paycheck? Surely someone with such a high aptitude could easily get a job elsewhere -- I guess I'm just unable to make the connection on who willingly builds this kind of s…
It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?
231–240 of 329 posts
Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It could be that with their security clearances, they know things about threats that make their decision to work for the NSA a moral imperative. This I very much doubt.The builders would have security clearances, because what they're building is classified. But builders would not need and would not have access to intelligence; they aren't analysts or policy makers. They probably have barely more information on inte…
And Snowden came from the builder side of the house, so all we are seeing in his document release so far is classified capabilities , not the intelligence that they collected, or any plots that they thwarted. The folks who do know that stuff are still following their own rules, so they can't tell us about them. So we are all operating from an assymmetry of information. I'm really, really against the capabilities I've…
AKA paying the mortgage
Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a terrible reason. These men were the definition of the type of thing a system like this should catch. intelligence agencies had been warned about one of them multiple times and they were both using the internet to self radicalize. The fact that the Boston bombings still happened should be proof enough that these systems either A) Do not work or B) are not being used against this type of threat. If it isn't i…
Or... the system catches things like this all the time, this is just one that slipped through, and if the system wasn't in place, there would be many, many more incidents of this type. Maybe. (This is normally "bear-repellent amulet" type thinking, but I think there's a specific exemption in this case, in that there are good reasons why you'd see no evidence of the system's effectiveness: the government doesn't like…
Because it was happening all the time before
Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a number floated as possible years of time, but it is not what he 'would have been' sentenced. We don't know because he decided to turn snitch.
...it's particularly misleading because you could be sentenced for 124 years for a several dozen different offenses but serve your time concurrently .
Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?
#235One thing I find interesting is that it's somehow okay as long as it's directed at 'the foreigners'. Who are these foreigners? Is it Sergey Brin or Larry Page, before they moved to the US? Elon Musk? Peter Thiel? Many Americans need not look further than their grandparents to see a 'foreigner' (and, excluding a few natives, the entire nation has been built by foreigners). Would it not makes sense to show the same cou…
The same happens for social rights when moving countries: When moving, say from France to Australia, you temporarily or permanently lose your social cover: unemployment, health, retirement, unless you pay 2 systems at a time. Today's civilization is international and we ought to protect "mobile citizen" under an equality banner.
Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?
#236Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?
#237I have an honest and serious question -- who are the developers and designers who put these systems into place for the NSA? Are they aware of what they're doing or is it all classified and contracted out? Are they proud of their work? Is it just a paycheck? Surely someone with such a high aptitude could easily get a job elsewhere -- I guess I'm just unable to make the connection on who willingly builds this kind of s…
Everyone on HN acts like there's no possible reason for people to support these types of activities, but there could be very legitimate reasons these engineers choose to do what they do. It could just be a challenge for them. Where else can you not only get away with, but be rewarded with a good salary and a pension for hacking into the most secure systems on earth? It must be thrilling to be 'Competing' against the…
Unless they are trying to stop Xenomorphs AND Old Ones at the same time, I'm not sure these measures are really justified.
When I look at history of things "Intelligence agencies" have prevented I see more things that are made up or self made than what the enemy forces did.
Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?
#238I have an honest and serious question -- who are the developers and designers who put these systems into place for the NSA? Are they aware of what they're doing or is it all classified and contracted out? Are they proud of their work? Is it just a paycheck? Surely someone with such a high aptitude could easily get a job elsewhere -- I guess I'm just unable to make the connection on who willingly builds this kind of s…
http://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000001733041/the-pro...
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/4/20/exclusive_national_sec...
Apparently he was happy producing these tools for use on foreigners, but then they were turned against the domestic population and he had a change of heart. The first interview is an interesting overview from him of how the surveillance works - pulling together all the threads of someone's life from the internet and compiling them into one record giving an overview of their entire life.
I imagine people doing this are both proud and feel they are doing some good, because they've bought into the lie that this is primarily used to combat terrorism or other terrible crimes.
Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?
#239But that will never happen, because bureaucracy doesn't shrink. Period.
This explains my libertarian-leanings --> laws aren't written by the people, they are written by those who stand to benefit most directly from their passing. And the devil of a bill is always in its details, which laymen (sometimes even the congressman presenting the bill) can't understand/decipher. Read the Pulitzer-prize winning biography "The Powerbroker" if you want a lesson in how to abuse the public's ignorance through the cunning drafting of legislation. There is no CTRL-Z in DC.
There are movements, gaining traction, to introduce state-sponsored "internets" - because this is the path we have prescribed to the world. Yet such a profound outcome was not mindfully chosen by the people, it was incidental to the law.
We therefore have forfeited the greatest invention of our time through our collective lack of understanding and/or vulnerable&reactionary mindsets.
I'll be spending the rest of my life ruminating on this simple fact: the internet is sick, and my government is the disease.
[1] - And now that caricature-metaphor has a literal face, drawn by one of NSA's own--if you ever wanted to know what Big Brother "looked like."
Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone on HN acts like there's no possible reason for people to support these types of activities, but there could be very legitimate reasons these engineers choose to do what they do. It could just be a challenge for them. Where else can you not only get away with, but be rewarded with a good salary and a pension for hacking into the most secure systems on earth? It must be thrilling to be 'Competing' against the…
1 Reason: http://willyloman.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/boston-9.jpg (NSFW) Sometimes you need try and understand both points of view.
Now you're telling me that will all these apparatus they missed Beavis & Butthead there? (yes, that's what they were) And they had several warnings that went ignored and didn't depend on surveillance.
Looks like extreme incompetency or that they weren't looking for that in the first place.