Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#211

Post by yohanatan » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 7:23 AM UTC

eridius wrote: post #193

panarky wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Macs may be better, but this has gone beyond healthy competition. This is not right, and we must do what we can to stop it. Deploying this patent portfolio offensively can only postpone innovation. It's bad for customers, it's bad for the industry, and I'd argue it's bad for humanity. Coincidentally, Google released Android 4.4 today. It brings a modern browser with much improved battery life to older, less capable h…

Google's been abusing patents for a while (notably FRAND patents). Where was the outrage then? Why is it suddenly horrible for other companies to use patents against a company that has a history of abusing them?

Clearly he works for Google.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#212

Post by cloudwalking » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 7:23 AM UTC

shin_lao wrote: post #209

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

I don't think this is how things will turn out. People will like Google less and less because you can't do anything without them and there is no alternative, and what will happen to Google is exactly what happened to Microsoft: antitrust lawsuits, patents lawsuits, etc. This is not because Google is "evil" or anything, just because they are #1 and therefore are target for more and more people. In the end, this is all…

But Android is the alternative to the Apple hegemony. You can't get an iPhone for $50 in Asia, but you can get a $50 Android phone.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#213

Post by buro9 » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 7:24 AM UTC

partyanimal wrote: post #173

fpgeek wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this will hurt Apple's reputation, but, in my opinion, this should already have been "priced in". Apple never really repented after the "look-and-feel" lawsuit. Many hackers just didn't notice because they were an underdog climbing out of a deep hole for so long. Now that the worm has turned and Apple has their do-over we can see that they never changed their spots. They just improved their legal tactics…

"The Rockstar consortium is an organization backed by Apple, Microsoft, BlackBerry, Ericsson and Sony."

Not all members are equal parties and it's not hard to feel that the leaders in this group are Microsoft and Apple. They have the means, the motivation, and both have track record.

Blackberry are in no place to do this, Ericsson haven't been of this nature, and whilst Sony could they have enough distraction going on at the moment to focus their attention elsewhere. I also feel those three would gleefully follow Apple and Microsoft.

It looks and feels, from the viewpoint of a lay observer, to be an Apple and Microsoft effort.

Time will tell though, it may take a while but everything comes out in court, the good stuff and the bad.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#214

Post by fauigerzigerk » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 7:35 AM UTC

WaterSponge wrote: post #188

x0x0 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but say I want a smartphone, what is my alternative? google, who works harder and harder to sell everything I do to advertisers (now you can't even rate apps w/o a google+ account), and who just shut off transmitting search data so they can screw site owners for more $? microsoft, who is a party to this and actively worked to make the internet worse (and succeeded!) for the better part of a decade? or apple, who at l…

Marketing is a natural occurrence. All companies/people/groups market themselves in one way or another. Your not exactly forced to buy into whats being sold. Why is everyone so stuck on google core being a marketing company? I think its the least of evil profit motivations since hell I might actually be interested in what google has figured out I may want... Vs being locked out without any options and force into deal…

For me the issue isn't marketing itself. It's that in order to show me personalized ads they need to know a lot about me. They have to compile and store a personal profile that can be stolen or subpoenaed by anyone who is sufficiently capable or powerful.

But I agree that there is a dilemma. The alternative to ad based business models is to make a payment via a credit card, which identifies me even more directly and is subject to even tighter regulation and potential censorship. In the extreme, I have to deal with companies like Apple enforcing their broken moral standards on my phone.

There are no simple solutions to this I'm afraid.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#215

Post by Joister » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 7:38 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #134

haberman wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple threw down the gauntlet when they made it clear that their devices would be a walled garden where they would have absolute control over what apps you can run. Prior to Android, your choice was between your carrier overlords and the Apple overlord. Not only was that limiting for users, it was a vulnerability for Google business-wise to have their direct competitors as gatekeepers between their services and their…

But with Android, the choice is between your OEM overlords and the Google anti-fragmentation efforts overlord. Yes; you can flash your own ROM and switch to CyanogenMod or Replicant. That is the freedom you are guaranteed in Android. But how many people actually take advantage of it?

>But how many people actually take advantage of it?

Who gives a shit. The fact that the option exists means the "android locks you into google" argument is nonsense.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#216

Post by antocv » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 7:39 AM UTC

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #201

Anytime I see the latest "outrage" on HN, I laugh and remember us, citizens of my country that want to protest as long as they are not required to personally sacrifice too much. Most of these companies depend on you hackers (I do not write code) to be successful. If you decide to pull your apps from the app store, stop buying their products and write a post telling everyone why you made the move, they will be hurt. E…

i agree and sympathise with your comment.

however it is enough if a small minority takes action and great things can happen even then. for example gnu and linux.

ive not seen many people who can be inconvienienced and use linux freedom software all the time. but ive seen some. they have made a change, not yet visible for the masses but its there.

its those few who take the first steps. i think you should too. do it. even if its only you.

i did that many years ago and couldnt be happier now.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#217

Post by cageface » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 7:41 AM UTC

anko wrote: post #64

cageface wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it makes any difference I'd say Android development is mostly a lot more logical and sane than iOS, particularly now that Apple is shoving the tragic catastrophe of an API that is AutoLayout down everybody's throat. Don't let the fragmentation FUD scare you.

What do you mean by fragmentation FUD? Are you seriously saying that android isn't more fragmented than iOS? There are 5 resolutions to support in iOS. For most purposes, there are only 2 versions to support. What's the situation like on android? Just because you don't understand an API, doesn't mean you should trash it. Writing APIs is hard. Last I checked I couldn't have more than 1 map on a screen on android with…

I've developed several iOS and Android applications professionally and I've actually spent more time dealing with device-specific issues on iOS than Android. It's true that you do have to deal with different form factors and resolutions in Android but the tools the Android SDK gives you to deal with these issues are so vastly superior to what Apple offers that it comes as a wash in typical cases.

I've been writing software for a living for fifteen years now and I've yet to encounter a more opaque, complex, and unpredictable API than AutoLayout.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#218

Post by subsection1h » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 7:43 AM UTC

yuhong wrote: post #45

ekianjo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Don't buy Macs" is not going to work well around here. Most HNers develop software on Mac and see it as the ideal development platform. I'd say they don't care about what Apple does (it's not the first time Apple does that either).

And Apple is not the only company in this consortium

True, but Apple paid $2.6 billion of the $4.5 billion.[1]

[1] http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/10/31/google-samsung-and...

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#219

Post by christopherryan » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 7:46 AM UTC

GOSPEL ARTIST POSES NUDE!

Evon Latrail is the author of a children's book "When Mommy Went to Heaven". She wrote/recorded a few songs; "Lord Bless My Enemies" and "It Is Time" happens to be two of the titles. She even has a song entitled, "Can't You See (Abortion Is Murder). She went Pro-life after having a abortion! Really???? Now here is a photo of her posing in chocolate as a "Swamp Girl". The word Hypocrite is floating around somewhere. This story has made front page news in the local paper. How can this so called "Gospel Artist" be a role model is she's posing news? For more on this story.....Go to Google or YouTube and search, Evon Latrail.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#220

Post by bad_user » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 7:47 AM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #178

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

but say I want a smartphone, what is my alternative? google, who works harder and harder to sell everything I do to advertisers (now you can't even rate apps w/o a google+ account), and who just shut off transmitting search data so they can screw site owners for more $? microsoft, who is a party to this and actively worked to make the internet worse (and succeeded!) for the better part of a decade? or apple, who at l…

People bitch and moan about Gmail serving ads and yet people bitched and moaned when Google Apps dropped the free version, even though with paid accounts you don't get ads anymore and the pricing of Google Apps is insanely good compared to the alternatives.

Android, Chrome, Chrome OS are open-source. Amazon already forked Android. Android is also the only popular mobile operating-system that allows installation of software from third-party sources. And if you use Android, you don't have to buy into Google's services.

In my eyes it doesn't matter that Apple isn't being "run for" advertisers. Because Apple sure as hell isn't operating their business in my interests either.