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It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

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Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#191

Post by brianberns »

Serious question: What exactly is objectionable about the "smiley face" diagram? Except for that tiny face, it seems to be a totally innocent network diagram that shows how Google's private network connects to the public internet. I understand the implication is that the NSA is tapping connections between Google's data centers, but there's nothing in the diagram itself that supports this claim. I'd like to know what about it made those two Google-related engineers "explode in profanity".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_404h/2010-2019/Washin...

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#192

Post by ateeqs »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #184
ateeqs wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait guys, let me get this straight: You guys are not okay with the US government accessing your data that Google has, but you are somehow okay with sharing your data with Google? I just see big "evil" vs small "evil." I'm not seeing much of a difference. Also, would you be okay if another government had access to your data in Google's cloud? You guys are probably not seeing the futility of it all.

This false equivalency thing is getting really fucking old. If you can't see the difference between voluntarily giving info to Google and the government literally stealing this info, than just please don't get involved in any discussions about this.

Oooh, cursing. That's one way to show your larger than average wiener size in HN, isn't it? ;)

I am not sure I said they were equivalent-- they are two sizes of evil.

Besides, "stealing" is a relative term, and the government does not consider what it is doing as stealing.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#193

Post by ateeqs »

aeturnum wrote: post #185
ateeqs wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait guys, let me get this straight: You guys are not okay with the US government accessing your data that Google has, but you are somehow okay with sharing your data with Google? I just see big "evil" vs small "evil." I'm not seeing much of a difference. Also, would you be okay if another government had access to your data in Google's cloud? You guys are probably not seeing the futility of it all.

Shockingly, most people are happier when their data is shared only with the party/(ies) they agreed to share it with. That doesn't mean we're all 100% ok with sharing our data with Google, but as long as we're informed about who gets our data we can think about it. If the data is going to the NSA (and who knows where else), that decision is a lot more complex. If you think it's futile, I suggest you leave us to our,…

Realize that it's probably just not the US government that has this type of access.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#194

Post by ateeqs »

aeturnum wrote: post #185
ateeqs wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait guys, let me get this straight: You guys are not okay with the US government accessing your data that Google has, but you are somehow okay with sharing your data with Google? I just see big "evil" vs small "evil." I'm not seeing much of a difference. Also, would you be okay if another government had access to your data in Google's cloud? You guys are probably not seeing the futility of it all.

Shockingly, most people are happier when their data is shared only with the party/(ies) they agreed to share it with. That doesn't mean we're all 100% ok with sharing our data with Google, but as long as we're informed about who gets our data we can think about it. If the data is going to the NSA (and who knows where else), that decision is a lot more complex. If you think it's futile, I suggest you leave us to our,…

Also, realize that the -entire- ecosystem that we have now is probably insecure and will probably be insecure for the foreseeable future.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#195

Post by gnaritas »

jumby wrote: post #92
angersock wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't need to live in a utopia to see that doing the right thing despite being afraid and aware of existential threats is something worth doing.

Would your opinion change if a nuclear bomb was detonated in Houston, TX?

No. If your morals change because you're scared, they aren't morals are they! Laws should stem from values, not your worst fears. We shouldn't trade freedom for security, and especially not phony security.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#198

Post by a3n »

timClicks wrote: post #181
snowwrestler wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Snowden came from the builder side of the house, so all we are seeing in his document release so far is classified capabilities , not the intelligence that they collected, or any plots that they thwarted. The folks who do know that stuff are still following their own rules, so they can't tell us about them. So we are all operating from an assymmetry of information. I'm really, really against the capabilities I've…

IIRC Snowden was a sysadmin with root.

In other words, a Morlock. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morlock

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#199

Post by fotbr »

wellboy wrote: post #25
sharkweek wrote: post #19

I have an honest and serious question -- who are the developers and designers who put these systems into place for the NSA? Are they aware of what they're doing or is it all classified and contracted out? Are they proud of their work? Is it just a paycheck? Surely someone with such a high aptitude could easily get a job elsewhere -- I guess I'm just unable to make the connection on who willingly builds this kind of s…

If you tell a graduate engineer about the great mathematical problems there are to solve and that solving them will protect the American people, it's quite easy to get a strong workforce behind you. And if they were just engineering small parts it was probably hard to see the whole picture, even more so to judge if it's right or wrong. However, this big PR outrage will probably have them come to their senses and crum…

Crumble the workforce? HAH

Here's the bitch of the situation, and the part that most who think like you do not understand -- the people that you're hoping will "come to their senses", if they take the oaths they signed seriously (and they signed oaths, the breaking of which are punishible by imprisonment) -- are not allowed to possess (ie, read, since that would involve having a copy of the document on the device being used to read it, even if only temporarily) the documents driving "this big PR outrage", because even though those documents are out in public, they are not automatically declassified.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#200

Post by JackFr »

duairc wrote: post #119
md224 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes it's important to halt that process and stop and just say "this is definitely fucked up", and yes, not to question it any further. In my opinion, there are few things more tragic than someone carrying out actions with serious consequences on behalf of a belief that they refuse to question. I believe I understand your pragmatic concerns. It is hard to act passionately while simultaneously entertaining doub…

In a way I actually agree with nearly everything you say, I just think you haven't taken what you say to its logical conclusion. The thing you seem to be missing is that there are no “neutral” beliefs. There's no “middle” in terms of ideology. Doing “nothing” is de facto maintaining the status quo, and acting to maintain the status quo is a positive action just as much as acting to abolish it is. The belief that the…

This is weirdly Orwellian.

If doing nothing is a 'positive action', than the words 'positive action' have no meaning. If think you mean to say that the effect doing nothing is to support the status quo, and morally equivalent to positive action supporting the the status quo, I still disagree, but you're on firmer ground.

Apart from that, all you need to do is thematically replace privacy rights & surveillance with class struggle & worldwide revolution and this is pure Bolshevism.

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