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Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

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Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#181

Post by biafra »

YZF wrote: post #163
sanskritabelt wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only benefit to at-will employment for an employee is you're not tied into things like 'you must work here for 2 years / give 6 months notice', over/under of 15 years for those protections to start being weakened.

Typically these laws would be biased towards the employee. At-will employment pretends there's some sort of symmetry and/or market forces. Social labour laws are about protecting employees, not employers. Forcing someone to work for two years at a certain place or give 6 months notice before they leave would be considered a violation of their human rights in most places. I'd be really surprised if Germany requires em…

It depends on your contract. The longest I ever had was 3 months to the end of a quarter. Theses conditons always go both ways. But which employer would insist in keeping you when he knows you want to leave? What level of motivation could he expect?

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#183

Post by biafra »

justinhj wrote: post #180
aianus wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the benefit that a company would be more willing to give you a chance at employment knowing they can fire you if it doesn't work out.

Well in Canada you can fire for no reason in the first 3 months anyway.

In Germany it is up to 6 months (Probezeit) depending on your contract. But the employee can also leave with 2 weeks notice.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#184

Post by pessimizer »

Symmetry wrote: post #162
kops wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bear in mind that no one is forcing the employee to accept this. That doesn't quite absolve the employer e.g. if I am stuck in sahara desert and bump into a man starving for days. At this time if I offer him food in return for his soul, would you consider it a fair trade? Even though the poor guy has a choice to reject my offer?

So, trading away one's soul might be considered short sighted and there's a whole argument to be had with regards to the state preventing us from making short sighted decisions, so lets say that the desert rescuer was demanding the starving life savings or something. It would certainly be a horrible person who would demand that much for saving a person's life. But if the only reason that this or other person was hold…

>So, trading away one's soul might be considered short sighted

Starving to death instead of trading away your soul is more short-sighted; the metaphor has nothing to do with deferring pleasure or information asymmetry. It's about power asymmetry.

Being in a weak position while negotiating a deal doesn't imply either being less informed or having less self-control than the person on the other side.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#185

Post by walshemj »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #167
_vn5r wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The french equivalent says that you can have the education or 5+ years experience

This is wonderful. Thank you.

This might only applys in France in the eu each state implements directives from the EU as it sees fit there can be wide discrepancies

For example the way the Spanish implemented TUPE (how employees are treated in take over) is basically a big f$%k you to the EU as it makes no attempt to implement even anything close to the spirit of the directive.

I suspect that Germany might be stricter on the university Degree.

Also not all Eu states implemented it Uk Eire and Denmark did not.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#186

Post by walshemj »

tptacek wrote: post #176
notahacker wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire workforce can give notice and quit in those conditions in Europe, with better unemployment insurance, free health insurance and much more chance of being able to extricate a financial settlement from their employer for unfair treatment. I'm not saying nothing about at-will contracts filter down to benefit employees: US companies can often afford to pay higher salaries which on some occasions even correspon…

Health insurance in Europe is not free; it's simply not managed by employers.

For example in the uk around 11/12% of your pay is national insurance paying for social security and the NHS.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#187

Post by rbehrends »

wheels wrote: post #71
tptacek wrote: post #29

German labor law has some features that might interact in interesting ways with startups. Germany lacks employment-at-will; it appears that disputed terminations can easily become lawsuits there (but German law also seems to have orderly mechanisms for resolving these disputes, which boil down to mandatory severance). German law has what appears to be a strict policy on hours worked per week and per day, and on worki…

On the at-will thing, in addition to it being easier if the company has demonstrable financial problems as someone else mentioned, one thing that makes it less of an issue is that usually when you start at a company in Germany you're given a fixed-term contract. It's only after your third contract (i.e. usually after two years) that you're required to get a permanent contract. In most cases if there's a real clash it…

Fixed term labor contracts can last for up to four years for startups, actually (whether chained or as a single contract). See §14 (2a) TzBfG. Whether you'll find employees willing to agree to this is a different question, of course.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#188

Post by biafra »

berlincitizen2 wrote: post #19
chimeracoder wrote: post #4

Visas deter US-based startups from hiring foreign talent, but on the flip side, US taxation laws deter US-based talent from leaving the country. I would love the idea of working for a startup in Berlin, but to make financially comparable, I'd have to be paid about 30% more[0] just to offset the cost of paying double taxes (both to the US, and to Germany). I'm ignoring factors like COLA, other expenses, etc., but for…

Mind you that the cost of living in Berlin is nowhere near the cost of living in the Valley. A 40 square meter flat here costs just around 500€ ( less than 700$). I hear it's about three times as expensive in the valley. You get plenty of restaurants around for less than 10€. Other note: medical insurance is mandatory and covered by your taxes. It just doesn't make sense to compare salaries like this, you need to com…

Medical insurance is not covered by taxes.

It is propertinal to your income up to a limit (Beitragsbemessungsgrenze 2014: 48.600 EUR). It is capped there around 600€ per month. Half of it is payed by the employer and not deducted from your income before taxes. If you reach that limit you may also apply for a cheaper so called private insurance.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#189

Post by discardorama »

GoldenMonkey wrote: post #12
chimeracoder wrote: post #4

Visas deter US-based startups from hiring foreign talent, but on the flip side, US taxation laws deter US-based talent from leaving the country. I would love the idea of working for a startup in Berlin, but to make financially comparable, I'd have to be paid about 30% more[0] just to offset the cost of paying double taxes (both to the US, and to Germany). I'm ignoring factors like COLA, other expenses, etc., but for…

The first ~$97K earned in a foreign country is not taxable on your U.S. return. http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Forei...

That may be the case; but the documentation aspect (where you have to document every bank account, every investment, every property ownership, etc.) is a royal PITA from what I've heard.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#190

Post by rbehrends »

tptacek wrote: post #176
notahacker wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire workforce can give notice and quit in those conditions in Europe, with better unemployment insurance, free health insurance and much more chance of being able to extricate a financial settlement from their employer for unfair treatment. I'm not saying nothing about at-will contracts filter down to benefit employees: US companies can often afford to pay higher salaries which on some occasions even correspon…

Health insurance in Europe is not free; it's simply not managed by employers.

Free in this context usually means free at the point of purchase (with contributions being based upon ability to contribute; which, in particular, means that for the unemployed it can be entirely free). Employers contributing is actually pretty common (see e.g. Germany or the UK). The key part is that healthcare is not contingent upon employment (or being able to pay for it independently).
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