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It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

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Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#61

Post by [deleted] »

nashequilibrium wrote: post #57
mikeyouse wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone on HN acts like there's no possible reason for people to support these types of activities, but there could be very legitimate reasons these engineers choose to do what they do. It could just be a challenge for them. Where else can you not only get away with, but be rewarded with a good salary and a pension for hacking into the most secure systems on earth? It must be thrilling to be 'Competing' against the…

1 Reason: http://willyloman.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/boston-9.jpg (NSFW) Sometimes you need try and understand both points of view.

[deleted]

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#62

Post by grecy »

nashequilibrium wrote: post #57
mikeyouse wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone on HN acts like there's no possible reason for people to support these types of activities, but there could be very legitimate reasons these engineers choose to do what they do. It could just be a challenge for them. Where else can you not only get away with, but be rewarded with a good salary and a pension for hacking into the most secure systems on earth? It must be thrilling to be 'Competing' against the…

1 Reason: http://willyloman.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/boston-9.jpg (NSFW) Sometimes you need try and understand both points of view.

NSFW on that link

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#63

Post by angersock »

Cookingboy wrote: post #31
sharkweek wrote: post #19

I have an honest and serious question -- who are the developers and designers who put these systems into place for the NSA? Are they aware of what they're doing or is it all classified and contracted out? Are they proud of their work? Is it just a paycheck? Surely someone with such a high aptitude could easily get a job elsewhere -- I guess I'm just unable to make the connection on who willingly builds this kind of s…

What I'm about to say may be too unpopular on HackerNews. Have you considered the possibility that not everyone shares the same moral standard and ideology? People came from different backgrounds and have different experiences, and most things are not black and white, but different shades of gray in this world. I'm sure there are people who consider the Fourth Amendment to be obsolete just like there are people who c…

Well, let's just admit the moral highground here, and take a stand:

These people are Wrong. We are Right, because we stand for personal privacy and liberty--ideals incompatible with their ideals.

There's the line in the sand.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#64

Post by angersock »

nashequilibrium wrote: post #57
mikeyouse wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone on HN acts like there's no possible reason for people to support these types of activities, but there could be very legitimate reasons these engineers choose to do what they do. It could just be a challenge for them. Where else can you not only get away with, but be rewarded with a good salary and a pension for hacking into the most secure systems on earth? It must be thrilling to be 'Competing' against the…

1 Reason: http://willyloman.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/boston-9.jpg (NSFW) Sometimes you need try and understand both points of view.

Extensive surveillance didn't do a thing to save that man, and future surveillance won't bring his legs back.

More people have suffered in Gitmo than were injured in the Boston attack, and more people died from drone strikes than when the towers fell.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#65

Post by OvidNaso »

jumby wrote: post #47
sharkweek wrote: post #19

I have an honest and serious question -- who are the developers and designers who put these systems into place for the NSA? Are they aware of what they're doing or is it all classified and contracted out? Are they proud of their work? Is it just a paycheck? Surely someone with such a high aptitude could easily get a job elsewhere -- I guess I'm just unable to make the connection on who willingly builds this kind of s…

screw it, i'll repost my comment here too. I know i'll get the down-vote brigade but meh: Here's what bugs me about all the people chiming in about how messed up this all is. It's like you all think we live in some sort of utopia whereby we are the only ones doing this sort of surveillance. Every single sophisticated foreign intelligence is doing this back at us, their citizens and their enemies - probably with more…

Not one of those reasons, except the last, has anything to do with a vast majority of the revelations about what the NSA is doing that has people up in arms.

And the only legitimate argument about protecting against terrorism, people are starting to realize that the threat is miniscule and is amplified due to cognitive interpretations of data.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#66

Post by penguindev »

XorNot wrote: post #54
notahacker wrote: post #26

I'm a bit confused by the whole "liberty needs a lobbyist" argument. Lobbying for what exactly? Intelligence agencies to pretend to stop spying on you? I think that's as much as you can reasonably hope for lobbying to achieve. The wider implications are earlier in the article. Wearable recording devices and biometric security devices shared in the cloud? Probably better to assume the government will compromise them i…

I'm constantly amazed that its like everyone has suddenly forgotten that during Occupy Wall St, protests before and since, and the entire Arab Spring revolution, it was portable and mobile recording devices widely dispersed amongst the populace that enabled successful revolution against government and evidence and checks of the abuses of power of police and other authorities.

OWS was successful at something? What would that be...

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#68

Post by angersock »

jumby wrote: post #47
sharkweek wrote: post #19

I have an honest and serious question -- who are the developers and designers who put these systems into place for the NSA? Are they aware of what they're doing or is it all classified and contracted out? Are they proud of their work? Is it just a paycheck? Surely someone with such a high aptitude could easily get a job elsewhere -- I guess I'm just unable to make the connection on who willingly builds this kind of s…

screw it, i'll repost my comment here too. I know i'll get the down-vote brigade but meh: Here's what bugs me about all the people chiming in about how messed up this all is. It's like you all think we live in some sort of utopia whereby we are the only ones doing this sort of surveillance. Every single sophisticated foreign intelligence is doing this back at us, their citizens and their enemies - probably with more…

"Why wouldn't we surveil their cell phones, email and IM accounts?"

Because we're Americans, goddamnit, and that's not what we do.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#69

Post by prawn »

einehexe wrote: post #27

The elephant it the room that everyone is wants to ignore is that Google's data was intercepted by the British. It is quite interesting how that is conveniently overlooked to push a certain narrative.

I think at some level (e.g., international power and security to maintain that), US/UK/CA/AU/NZ are the same thing.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#70

Post by tptacek »

duairc wrote: post #51
tptacek wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EXTERMINATE ALL RATIONAL THOUGHT. Questions are not allowed. Consideration is not allowed. Context is not allowed. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.

There's a Deleuze quote about this that I really like: “It is not the slumber of reason that engenders monsters, but vigilant and insomniac rationality”. What I understand this to mean is that the nature of “rationality” is such that a rational person can rationalize anything . Nobody is saying “EXTERMINATE ALL RATIONAL THOUGHT”, obviously this is just you trolling, but to the extent that anything intelligent can be…

"There's no possible reason for people to support these programs", the preceding comment says, "and so it is pointless and even harmful for us to talk about possible reasons".
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