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Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

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Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#141

Post by mahyarm »

parennoob wrote: post #118
mahyarm wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can actually get an immigration (green card) visa from outside the country from the start. You could work for Google Berlin/Zurich for example, and then move over when its all processed for a green card on arrival. One co-worker for the startup I work for came from Chile that way. You can also just work for Google in Europe for a year or two, and then get transferred over on a L1/L2 visa where your wife can also…

I don't exactly know what country's visas you are talking about, but if it is the US, these are the sticking points: 1) Not everyone works for Google or Facebook. Some of us work for smaller companies that no one has heard of. 2) "Also while you just have a work visa, you can still change employers through more paperwork". Said paperwork is toxic and suffocating to the point where it is extremely detrimental to your…

I'm talking about the USA. I work for one of those VC funded smaller companies, and they provide comparable services by just hiring immigration lawyers. The fee per employee are around several thousands of dollars and $10-20k for green cards. The new hiring firm also hires the lawyers to switch you over to make it relatively painless on your side. Compared to getting a new H1B visa hire, the switchover employees are much easier to hire.

A smaller startup company will ask more hours of you and wont provide such things as an on site kindergarden, but the benefits can be fairly comparable. Some of those startups also have a foreign office you could work at for a year or two and do the L1 visa thing for you too.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#142

Post by sentenza »

thex86 wrote: post #58
okeumeni wrote: post #32

This is controversial but it is my personal experience: As a non-white, living in Germany is hard; the level of bigotry and racism in my opinion makes the nuisance of the US visa system negligible. Most tech immigrants are non-whites so I think a debate over immigration should take into account the quality of life for the techies and their family. Sure the US still have a lot to do to improve its visa system, but the…

Same can be said for Canada. As a non-white, I have not faced any discrimination yet in Canada ever since I moved here ten years ago. Sure there may be racism but at least not in the everyday life and certainly not in the tech sector.

Same can be said for West Germany. The horror stories are overwhelmingly from the former East Germany and Berlin.

I'm not trying to defend what is going on "over there", but you have to realize that Germany is, in many respects, still not one country and will remain so for a very long time.

Whenever you hear people speak of German unification, keep the following in mind: While we were incredibly lucky that there was no bloodshed, the people of East Germany were completely screwed in the process. More than twenty years after the beginning, it is misleading to speak of unification.

What happened was an annexation.

Every part of East German society was uprooted, down to the most minuscule. Massive labor migration to the west completely changed demographics, with many young women leaving but fewer young men doing so.

Wherever you have conditions such as these in any European country, Skinheads and the like will start appearing. As if it was some perverse rule of nature.

Maybe we're screwed. Maybe it is an emergent trait of European culture. I hope it isn't.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#143

Post by ajju »

Aloisius wrote: post #54

US Visa laws are certainly hard, but there is a positive side (for the US at least): only those that are highly motivated to move here make it through the process. This really does bias the types of immigrants we get. As much as people might complain about immigrants coming in and then going on welfare, it just doesn't happen with any frequency. Instead, we get immigrants who come here and start companies at twice th…

>As long as we continue to have people who want to come to the US, I can't see why we'd want to make the process easier unless we can continue to keep these filters in place.

Our onboarding process is hard, but there is a positive side: only customers who are highly motivated to pay sign up.

As long as our customers continue to pay, I can't see why we'd want to make the user experience easier unless we can continue to ensure we get paying customers.

[If you can't spot the folly in your logic, your false dichotomy suggests that the U.S. is getting all the motivated immigrants it can get. In reality, even the motivated immigrants who do end up in the U.S. on an H1B end up working semi-rote jobs at large companies when many of them would start job creating companies if they were allowed to. ]

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#144

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

kops wrote: post #104
jrockway wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he wants to make sure people know what they're in for when they leave the US to start a company. In the US, as soon as you pay someone a salary, you basically own them. You can work them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, with no vacation or minimum wage. You don't have to provide benefits, and you can fire them for absolutely any reason at any time. You even own everything they do in their free time. That's simp…

It sounds even more surprising to me even though I have never been to US. Although I always dreamt to... Thanks for your post. I mean no disrespect, but could you please link to any references. Specially about the working hours, minimum wage and vacation etc. If it is true then I am going to do myself a favour and trash my US visa right away. I am not much of a traveller but I can always assume that grand canyon does…

He's exaggerating somewhat.

Bear in mind that no one is forcing the employee to accept this. You can leave a job at any time, for any reason with absolutely no notice just as easily as the employer can get rid of you.

If I'm hired to work 40 hours/week for $100k year with 3 weeks vacation, I am entitled to all of that. If the employer then decides that I should work 80 hours a week and he will cut my pay to $60k/year and not let me take vacation, I can simply get up and leave and in most jurisdictions, that will be sufficient grounds for me to receive unemployment insurance while I look for my next job.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#145

Post by mahyarm »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #95
mahyarm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the US (not NYC, DC, SF) is far cheaper than Europe in general. Even Seattle is cheaper on average.

> Even Seattle is cheaper on average. Unless you mean "cheaper than Europe in general", I guess these sites could use your input: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun... http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/seattle/...

Berlin is much cheaper than most of western europe or germany because of the long term economic effects of being part of east germany. A more apt comparison then would be frankfurt vs seattle or detroit vs berlin. Also expatistan just uses the expensive part of town

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#146

Post by arjunnarayan »

makmanalp wrote: post #114
peterjmag wrote: post #56

I successfully applied for a work visa here in Berlin, and I was blown away by how quick the process was, especially in contrast to the stories I hear about the same process in the US. From submitting all the paperwork to getting word that my application was approved, it took a grand total of 7 days . I was expecting to wait at least a few weeks, but it seems that the new Blue Card legislation has really streamlined…

So what's the catch? What's worse about the Blue Card / why would you ever get the work permit?

I think the blue card is only for some restricted occupations (in tech, science, mathematics, etc.) and has a minimum salary requirement (of about 46k euros/year). Which shouldn't be a problem for the HN demographic.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#147

Post by Aloisius »

outworlder wrote: post #124
Aloisius wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California Community College tuition is about $1,100 per year and another $1,700 in books and supplies. That excludes room and board, personal expenses, transportation and the like. That's not quite as low as Germany, but very doable. California State University system by comparison costs $6,600 in tuition for the year while the University of California system is around $13,000. Of course both of those are probably l…

Not being from the US, I always thought that community colleges had a bad reputation. Isn't that true?

They vary dramatically in quality (similar to high schools) and they are typically two-year colleges. For training mid-skill workers, they do a decent job. It is hard to really compare them to four-year colleges because they have open enrollment (anyone can go regardless of previous grades).

They also provide an affordable way of transitioning to a four-year college for the highly motivated and in some states, top-ranking high school students can enroll in community college to earn an associates degree their high school pays for putting them on an accelerated path.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#148

Post by bigd »

Aloisius wrote: post #54

US Visa laws are certainly hard, but there is a positive side (for the US at least): only those that are highly motivated to move here make it through the process. This really does bias the types of immigrants we get. As much as people might complain about immigrants coming in and then going on welfare, it just doesn't happen with any frequency. Instead, we get immigrants who come here and start companies at twice th…

Your argument is the kind of comment I can imagine being said by an army sergeant. "Only the strongest survive the training". followed by: "Wearing a skirt is asking for rape."

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#149

Post by speedracr »

makmanalp wrote: post #114
peterjmag wrote: post #56

I successfully applied for a work visa here in Berlin, and I was blown away by how quick the process was, especially in contrast to the stories I hear about the same process in the US. From submitting all the paperwork to getting word that my application was approved, it took a grand total of 7 days . I was expecting to wait at least a few weeks, but it seems that the new Blue Card legislation has really streamlined…

So what's the catch? What's worse about the Blue Card / why would you ever get the work permit?

The Blue Card requires that you have a job contract or very concrete job offer with a minimum salary, and will more or less be tied to that job: If you lose your job, they apparently can give you some time to find a new one, but you may get kicked out if you fail in that endeavor. Also, if you want to change jobs away from the one that originally got you the Blue Card, you'll have to get formal approval. (Edit: this would probably apply to a regular work permit, as well. I'm German, so I never had this problem. Still, you can apparently even apply to get a work permit as a freelancer, which would then make life much easier for you if you don't want to tie yourself to a Blue Card job for that long.)

Other than that, there seems to be no catch - the Blue Card is meant to attract highly skilled workers, so once that hurdle is cleared (>> minimum salary, university education, easier for certain high-in-demand sectors), the EU countries seem pretty happy to have Blue Card holders stay - as they should be.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#150

Post by simonebrunozzi »

philiphodgen wrote: post #14
chimeracoder wrote: post #4

Visas deter US-based startups from hiring foreign talent, but on the flip side, US taxation laws deter US-based talent from leaving the country. I would love the idea of working for a startup in Berlin, but to make financially comparable, I'd have to be paid about 30% more[0] just to offset the cost of paying double taxes (both to the US, and to Germany). I'm ignoring factors like COLA, other expenses, etc., but for…

If you are a U.S. citizen working in Berlin and paying German income tax, you will not be double-taxed on the income. The USA will give you credit for the tax paid in Germany. See Form 1116. Others have mentioned the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. See Form 2555. You will, however, pay two metric shit-tonnes in professional fees getting your U.S. tax returns prepared because the international tax rules are so ridicu…

Is it so just because tax rates are higher in Germany, or for other reasons?
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