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Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

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Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#121

Post by outworlder »

levosmetalo wrote: post #34
pucallpa wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this ^^^ I worked in canada for a year and was offered to stay, my permanent residency would have been granted after 6 months and citizenship in 2 years. After 5 years in the US, I'm on this situation, even after obtained a Software Engineering master degree in the US from CMU, my application is being dragged.

That's why there's no rational reason experienced developer who have a wife and kids will choose USA over Germany. In USA he would first need to wait at least one year until his family can arrive, then wait for 5 or more years to get permanent residency (Green Card) in which period his wife will not have permission to work, and he would be unable to plan his future in any significant way because he would live on the…

Regarding the wife not having permission to work: aren't there other visa types which allow this, other than H1B?

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#122

Post by altero »

I find it ironic that Germany emigration policy is considered friendly. I live in Czech Republic, but it was easier to move to Ireland than to neighboring Germany.

Germany is very nationalistic state, it had number of exceptions from EU open space. Even now German Police searches vehicles with foreign registration plates (search is nearly disassembly).

German law is VERY unfriendly to startups, and the taxes for companies and workers are very high. I would choose Ireland, Czech Rep or Poland over Germany any time

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#123

Post by geebee »

This article prompted me to look into something I've been interested in for a while - what's the skilled vs unskilled breakdown in immigration for various countries?

Canada and Australia, as far as I understand it, do emphasize skilled immigration, though not exclusively (Australia has a points test that I think the US would do well to emulate). I read a lot of praise for Germany's startup visa, but I'm also reading about hostility toward immigrants, boats of poor, uneducated (and most likely) migrants sinking off the coast of Italy or the shores of Australia... there's a lot of anecdote here (stories like that attract a lot of attention - but are they typical?). A really broad look would be interesting to read about.

I actually haven't been able to find much about this, though - at least not on a nation-by-nation basis. It does sound like a difficult bit of data analysis, because the numbers themselves are tough to interpret (for example, would migration within the EU count as immigration, whereas Californians moving to Texas wouldn't?).

Anyone got any good links?

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#124

Post by outworlder »

Aloisius wrote: post #98
claudius wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Out of state tuition is typically expensive if you want to go to a top university, but the average community college is downright cheap. Studying at Germany’s best public universities (e.g. LMU Munich, FU Berlin etc.) will set you back about 250 € per term (6 months), which includes a public transport ticket (or about 50€ if said public transport ticket is not mandatory for all students). How ‘cheap’ exactly is a c…

California Community College tuition is about $1,100 per year and another $1,700 in books and supplies. That excludes room and board, personal expenses, transportation and the like. That's not quite as low as Germany, but very doable. California State University system by comparison costs $6,600 in tuition for the year while the University of California system is around $13,000. Of course both of those are probably l…

Not being from the US, I always thought that community colleges had a bad reputation. Isn't that true?

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#125

Post by oijaf888 »

kops wrote: post #104
jrockway wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he wants to make sure people know what they're in for when they leave the US to start a company. In the US, as soon as you pay someone a salary, you basically own them. You can work them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, with no vacation or minimum wage. You don't have to provide benefits, and you can fire them for absolutely any reason at any time. You even own everything they do in their free time. That's simp…

It sounds even more surprising to me even though I have never been to US. Although I always dreamt to... Thanks for your post. I mean no disrespect, but could you please link to any references. Specially about the working hours, minimum wage and vacation etc. If it is true then I am going to do myself a favour and trash my US visa right away. I am not much of a traveller but I can always assume that grand canyon does…

Not visiting the US as a tourist due to the laws on salaried employees seems a bit short sighted.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#126

Post by jeremydavid »

Are there any Berlin startups in here willing to write a "Letter of Intent"? If so, I'd love to send you an email and explain more!

(Basically, a Letter of Intent is a non-binding letter used to get a freelance visa that shows the applicant is capable of building connections - I intend to actually work on my own projects once I get in the door.)

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#127

Post by kcorbitt »

jrockway wrote: post #81
kops wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will embrace each of the supposedly problematic things you mentioned in your post any day. They seem rather fair to me. Do you have a different opinion? Why would you want startups to be exempt from this?

I think he wants to make sure people know what they're in for when they leave the US to start a company. In the US, as soon as you pay someone a salary, you basically own them. You can work them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, with no vacation or minimum wage. You don't have to provide benefits, and you can fire them for absolutely any reason at any time. You even own everything they do in their free time. That's simp…

I'm not sure that everything you said is correct, but the beauty of at-will employment is that it allows most of these problems to be solved by people looking to their own best interests. I don't know many companies that would try anything like that because their entire workforce would likely just give notice and quit. That's not in anyone's best interest, so labor conditions (at least in reasonably in-demand fields) tend to be sane.

Of course, it's true that there are differences in the social contract you usually get working in the US compared to other places -- for instance, there is less expected vacation time here than in a lot of EU countries. But that's a tradeoff that people choose to make.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#128

Post by drstewart »

levosmetalo wrote: post #113
drstewart wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No "rational reason" except for the fact that the pay in the US for software engineers is probably double (or even triple) what it is in Germany.

Define pay. If you define pay as something that you can spend when you deduce tax, health, pension, rent/mortgage, education of children I'm not sure that US offers double. And even if it were double in absolute numbers, so is the number of working hours per year of software engineer in US compared to Germany.

>If you define pay as something that you can spend when you deduce tax, health, pension, rent/mortgage, education of children I'm not sure that US offers double.

I define pay the way most people define pay. The gross amount paid to you by your employer per pay period.

>And even if it were double in absolute numbers, so is the number of working hours per year of software engineer in US compared to Germany.

Unless the average German software engineer works 20-25 hours a week, I'd love to see some statistics on this. According to OECD stats, US workers work 30% more hours than Germans. There's no reason to believe that's different for software devs (in fact, especially on the west coast, it probably trends in the opposite direction).

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS

I was also unaware rent and mortgages are free in Germany. Why do you not have to take those into account?

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#129

Post by toomuchtodo »

peterjmag wrote: post #56

I successfully applied for a work visa here in Berlin, and I was blown away by how quick the process was, especially in contrast to the stories I hear about the same process in the US. From submitting all the paperwork to getting word that my application was approved, it took a grand total of 7 days . I was expecting to wait at least a few weeks, but it seems that the new Blue Card legislation has really streamlined…

Can you apply for the Blue Card prior to finding employment? Or must you find an employer first to sponsor you?

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#130

Post by bigd »

parennoob wrote: post #5

As someone who is a non-US citizen going through the tortuous process of acquiring permanent residency in the US (estimated time: 8-10 years), I will advise any international people looking for their first job -- if you can get one in Berlin, Canada, or elsewhere, take it. The US immigration system is fraught with bureaucracy, and is structured such that employers have strong incentives to delay your application for…

For the sake of having fun, do we want to add how fun is in the US:

- getting a credit card (to build a credit score) when you have no credit score.

- activate phone/internet: (incredible fees, pay for RECEIVING SMS (!!) )

- car insurance: ~1200$yr because your new driving license.

- gas and electricity (at least in Chicago): require a SSN, and 10 days of background check.

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