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Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

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Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#11
As a argentinian programmer with italian citizenship that is considering leaving the country for Europe, are there any sites / forums or communities where I can contact startups or companies residing in Berlin?

I'm a web developer with experience in Ruby, Rails and Javascript

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#12

Visas deter US-based startups from hiring foreign talent, but on the flip side, US taxation laws deter US-based talent from leaving the country. I would love the idea of working for a startup in Berlin, but to make financially comparable, I'd have to be paid about 30% more[0] just to offset the cost of paying double taxes (both to the US, and to Germany). I'm ignoring factors like COLA, other expenses, etc., but for…

The first ~$97K earned in a foreign country is not taxable on your U.S. return.

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Forei...

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#13

Having built the first version of LayerVault in Berlin, it was remarkable to see how many expats were building companies there. It's also much more affordable than your more traditional hubs. I can't recommend Berlin enough, especially for building an MVP.

You can also build it in, like, your home town.

I don't get this obsession with moving to a startup hub before there's even most remote proof of your startup's viability. To me, it always raises the suspicion that one's less interested in actually building the business and more interested in living inside the movie The Social Network.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#14

Visas deter US-based startups from hiring foreign talent, but on the flip side, US taxation laws deter US-based talent from leaving the country. I would love the idea of working for a startup in Berlin, but to make financially comparable, I'd have to be paid about 30% more[0] just to offset the cost of paying double taxes (both to the US, and to Germany). I'm ignoring factors like COLA, other expenses, etc., but for…

If you are a U.S. citizen working in Berlin and paying German income tax, you will not be double-taxed on the income. The USA will give you credit for the tax paid in Germany. See Form 1116. Others have mentioned the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion. See Form 2555.

You will, however, pay two metric shit-tonnes in professional fees getting your U.S. tax returns prepared because the international tax rules are so ridiculous. The operating principle in U.S. tax law is "If you are doing something abroad, you must be Mafia ^H^H^H^H^H a drug lord ^H^H^H^H^H a thieving bastard tax cheat ^H^H^H^H^H^H terrorist." (The Poster Child of Evil has changed over the years, but the pig-headedness has remained constant).

Disclaimer: I am an international tax lawyer.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#15
post #10

Visas deter US-based startups from hiring foreign talent, but on the flip side, US taxation laws deter US-based talent from leaving the country. I would love the idea of working for a startup in Berlin, but to make financially comparable, I'd have to be paid about 30% more[0] just to offset the cost of paying double taxes (both to the US, and to Germany). I'm ignoring factors like COLA, other expenses, etc., but for…

> US taxation laws deter US-based talent from leaving the country They do? I know Americans still have to pay taxes while living abroad, but they can exclude up to $97600 per year from their US taxable income which is a nice start. (And that "Earned Income Exclusion" is rising every year: http://taxes.about.com/od/taxhelp/a/ForeignIncome_3.htm )

Isn't there a tax treaty between Germany and the United States to avoid double taxation?

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#16

Visas deter US-based startups from hiring foreign talent, but on the flip side, US taxation laws deter US-based talent from leaving the country. I would love the idea of working for a startup in Berlin, but to make financially comparable, I'd have to be paid about 30% more[0] just to offset the cost of paying double taxes (both to the US, and to Germany). I'm ignoring factors like COLA, other expenses, etc., but for…

Are you sure you'll be paying taxes twice? AFAIK, countries signed on mutual tax treaties only tax you for the difference between the domestic tax rate and what you paid in the other country. Being that US has a lower tax level than Germany, this difference will be negative, so effectively zero US tax.

I think the problem with US tax codes is that as a citizen you need to pay tax for any revenue you collected regardless of where you are physically located, but taxes you paid in treaty countries are subtracted from the total.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#17
post #10

Visas deter US-based startups from hiring foreign talent, but on the flip side, US taxation laws deter US-based talent from leaving the country. I would love the idea of working for a startup in Berlin, but to make financially comparable, I'd have to be paid about 30% more[0] just to offset the cost of paying double taxes (both to the US, and to Germany). I'm ignoring factors like COLA, other expenses, etc., but for…

> US taxation laws deter US-based talent from leaving the country They do? I know Americans still have to pay taxes while living abroad, but they can exclude up to $97600 per year from their US taxable income which is a nice start. (And that "Earned Income Exclusion" is rising every year: http://taxes.about.com/od/taxhelp/a/ForeignIncome_3.htm )

[deleted]

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#18

Visas deter US-based startups from hiring foreign talent, but on the flip side, US taxation laws deter US-based talent from leaving the country. I would love the idea of working for a startup in Berlin, but to make financially comparable, I'd have to be paid about 30% more[0] just to offset the cost of paying double taxes (both to the US, and to Germany). I'm ignoring factors like COLA, other expenses, etc., but for…

[deleted]

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#19

Visas deter US-based startups from hiring foreign talent, but on the flip side, US taxation laws deter US-based talent from leaving the country. I would love the idea of working for a startup in Berlin, but to make financially comparable, I'd have to be paid about 30% more[0] just to offset the cost of paying double taxes (both to the US, and to Germany). I'm ignoring factors like COLA, other expenses, etc., but for…

Mind you that the cost of living in Berlin is nowhere near the cost of living in the Valley. A 40 square meter flat here costs just around 500€ ( less than 700$). I hear it's about three times as expensive in the valley.

You get plenty of restaurants around for less than 10€. Other note: medical insurance is mandatory and covered by your taxes. It just doesn't make sense to compare salaries like this, you need to compare what you get for it.

Note: I'm working for a young startup in Berlin, my girlfriend might have to refuse a postdoc in the states as I wouldn't be allowed to follow her because of VISAs problems.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#20

Visas deter US-based startups from hiring foreign talent, but on the flip side, US taxation laws deter US-based talent from leaving the country. I would love the idea of working for a startup in Berlin, but to make financially comparable, I'd have to be paid about 30% more[0] just to offset the cost of paying double taxes (both to the US, and to Germany). I'm ignoring factors like COLA, other expenses, etc., but for…

> I'd have to be paid about 30% just to offset the cost of paying double taxes (both to the US, and to Germany)

This is plain wrong. The US and most (all?) EU states have agreements for the avoidance of double taxation in place. I live and work in Ireland as a German and US citizen. I pay my taxes here, and have to file in the US, but can deduct all my Irish taxes as "foreign taxation credits" or some such, effectively paying nothing to Uncle Sam.

Here's the US-Irish agreement: http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/law/double/usaprot.htm.... I'm sure you can find one for Germany.

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