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Ryan Carson responds to Paul Graham on startup hubs

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Re: Ryan Carson responds to Paul Graham on startup hubs

#31

Post by eusman »

eusman wrote: post #7

London and Paris will never become competitive startup hubs for the most simplest and most important reason, the climate! Everybody loves sun and beaches!

obviously it's not the climate the most important reason. Europe has a very prominent problem to solve before even having the chance to develop such a hub.

But in the future there be a place that will concentrate and host those people ready to build this ecosystem.

It's more a culture problem Europe is facing. There may be ventures geographically descentralized that succeed but they wont be concentrated anytime soon, because there arent enough attempts and often the very comptetent people move to US.

The huge irony is Loic Le Meur, the French guy who is hosting LeWeb3, who is supposed to be working towards that purpose. Interestingly enough, his new startup is now in San Fransisco..

p.s. even if the beach is cold, I guess the sun is there and the lifestyle and life is non-stop, and must have been a catalyst in the beggining when Silicon Vally began to attract people. Anyhow, of what I now real estate was pretty cheap even 25 years ago, which must have been a very important role. Paris is already big and expensive and cloudy. London the same. Cities in Germany the same.

The people and the prices are not startup friendly.

Re: Ryan Carson responds to Paul Graham on startup hubs

#32

Post by scylla »

ag wrote: post #20

I think PG is right. Ryan Carson wishful thinking is not going make it better. I due however think that Europe has an opportunity to attract hackers from everywhere (due to USA VISA policies) and build a vibrant startup community.

It's even harder to move to Europe as an entrepreneur for someone who is neither in the US or EU.

Re: Ryan Carson responds to Paul Graham on startup hubs

#33

Post by zaidf »

run4yourlives wrote: post #26
zaidf wrote: post #23

pg cares more about the immediate success of the entrepreneur. Carson cares more about developing new Silicon Valleys. They're both right, but as an entrepreneur, I know who I should be listening to.

pg cares about making money for YC. He does a lot of good things to do that but let's not forget that is his goal. Carson is trying to become a pg of Europe. Take both in measured amounts.

How does YC make money from any of this? /confused

Except may be it encourages his startups to move to the Valley, which increases the chances of YC's(and the startup's) success. Of course that just validates his essay that the Valley is the place to do startups.

Re: Ryan Carson responds to Paul Graham on startup hubs

#34

Post by ag »

scylla wrote: post #32
ag wrote: post #20

I think PG is right. Ryan Carson wishful thinking is not going make it better. I due however think that Europe has an opportunity to attract hackers from everywhere (due to USA VISA policies) and build a vibrant startup community.

It's even harder to move to Europe as an entrepreneur for someone who is neither in the US or EU.

You're right, that's why i think european policy makers need to change that

Re: Ryan Carson responds to Paul Graham on startup hubs

#36

Post by comatose_kid »

menloparkbum wrote: post #21
nanijoe wrote: post #2

You need to understand Carson's position on this matter...He is trying to build up Europe as a startup hub, then someone walks in and tells his audience that there is a better startup hub. Ouch!!

Actually, his position is that he makes money arranging web 2.0 conferences in London. How's he going to make money if all the "entrepreneurs" leave for silicon valley?

He arranges web 2.0 conferences in the Bay Area too....

Re: Ryan Carson responds to Paul Graham on startup hubs

#37

Post by mulcher »

Europe is ass-backwards in some sense.. they need to take more risks and foster a risk taking community.. It has a lot of pluses, but many minuses.. Every young person from the continent typically moves to London to work and make their money.

Also, about mobile.. Europe has had mobile for a lot longer than the US.. yet it takes Apple releasing the iPhone to begin to unleash its true power??

Interestingly some of the biggest investors in the tech boom and the housing bubble were UK and European institutions.. So the money is there.. it just needs to be redirected locally...

Re: Ryan Carson responds to Paul Graham on startup hubs

#38

Post by pg »

danw wrote: post #11

I think Ryan and PG have a different idea of what startups are. PG said in response to a question at FOWA that he was talking about startups designed for acquisition by the likes of Google. Acquisition is much easier where there are big established companies to network with. Ryan on the other hand seems to be talking about bootstrapping and building to last, which doesn't depend on the benefits of SV as much.

I certainly did not say that. What I said was that if there was no exit, it wasn't a startup. IPO is also a form of exit.

But the conclusion here is also false: you need bold and intelligent investors even more to build a long-lasting startup like Google.

Re: Ryan Carson responds to Paul Graham on startup hubs

#39

Post by pg »

hugh wrote: post #24

For the most part though, I suspect that for most non-US-citizen entrepreneurs, the question "Should I move to Silicon Valley?" is a bit like the questions "Should I grow a pair of wings on my back?" or "Should I enlist the Loch Ness Monster as a cofounder?" It might be nice to do it, but given the difficulty of getting a visa as an entrepreneur, it's not really an option.

We've had a bunch who've done it. Heysan, Buxfer, and Auctomatic were all founded entirely by non-US citizens, along with several others that haven't launched yet.

If you raise a certain level of investment, you can stay in the US. I don't know the details; it varies depending on where you're from and where you raise the money.

Re: Ryan Carson responds to Paul Graham on startup hubs

#40

Post by pg »

run4yourlives wrote: post #26
zaidf wrote: post #23

pg cares more about the immediate success of the entrepreneur. Carson cares more about developing new Silicon Valleys. They're both right, but as an entrepreneur, I know who I should be listening to.

pg cares about making money for YC. He does a lot of good things to do that but let's not forget that is his goal. Carson is trying to become a pg of Europe. Take both in measured amounts.

We get equity. We can literally only make money if founders make way more.
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