Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Meteor will kill Ruby on Rails

differential.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 336 posts

Re: Why Meteor will kill Ruby on Rails

#141

Post by joshowens »

ajlin500 wrote: post #138
bjourne wrote: post #92

I'll make an even bolder claim: Meteor doesn't work at all for anything except small toy apps. Meteor is built on the idea of reactiveness between server and clients. That is if the servers view of the data changes, then the clients views' must also change at the same time. It accomplishes that using websockets and letting each client have a full copy of all the servers data in memory. Works great for simple chats an…

This is very easy to do in Meteor. You just tell Meteor to only publish the information you need, just as you would in any other web application. I am currently running an enterprise software project on meteor with thousands of pieces of data in the database. If I published all of the data at once, it would crash the browser. I know because I actually did it when developing. Once you write the correct publish functio…

Wow, thx for sharing! I would love to talk to you more about what you are building - josh AT differential.io

Re: Why Meteor will kill Ruby on Rails

#142

Post by joshowens »

jarsbe wrote: post #119
joshowens wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't just fashion. We launch client apps in 6 weeks, time isn't negligible for us.

I'd love to see some examples of these apps, are you able to please share?

Sure:

http://www.shinglecentral.com/ http://assistant.io/ http://lister.io/

Are just a few from the last 1.5 months.

Re: Why Meteor will kill Ruby on Rails

#143

Post by dboat »

bjourne wrote: post #114
prezjordan wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your claim that the client has a full copy of the server's data is incorrect. By default that is the case, but removing such functionality takes only a few lines of javascript and removing the "autopublish" package (one command). Seriously, Meteor has grown up a lot recently. This stuff moves quick. I encourage you to take a look at it again, because I imagine many of your initial problems with the platform have been…

No stopping autopublish doesn't solve anything in this case. In my leaderboard example, the clients view of the highscore is dependent on all data in the collection which has to be published and the client has to subscribe to it. Even if you only want to show the best 10 scores of your 500k population, Meteor doesn't allow you to subscribe to the Mongo equivalent of "select player, score from results order by score d…

You could have asked for help, but that wouldn't work very well here, it's not what this site is for after all.

Far more effective to announce something incorrect and let the forces of truth and justice solve your problem for you. Well played.

Re: Why Meteor will kill Ruby on Rails

#144

Post by joshowens »

1qaz2wsx3edc wrote: post #139
acqq wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not static and it's not readable HTML when accessed without JavaScript. If I understand, that's the feature of the framework that is being praised.

I don't think that's completely fair. Meteor to me, is more cased for building realtime applications. Should a blog be a realtime application? Probably not, can it? Sure. Not only that but, but the page compensated. It's also kind of neat, that the author has indeed written a realtime blog. For fun: they could magically fix typos while you're reading.

Perhaps I should write a quick event to highlight words as they get fixed in realtime :)

Re: Why Meteor will kill Ruby on Rails

#145

Post by joshowens »

dasil003 wrote: post #101

Before we get carried away, let's remember that the web has tremendous utility outside of applications. Progressive enhancement is still the best way to do a great many types of websites. Rails succeeded because it tied together the fundamentals of the web in a nice package. Meteor is another step-change for a certain kind of real time application, but that is by definition a much narrower use-case.

I see realtime as a great side effect coming with the framework, to be honest.

Meteor itself makes it easier to write clean client side JS code where I care much less about the backend when I start.

Re: Why Meteor will kill Ruby on Rails

#146

Post by pauletienney »

joshowens wrote: post #142
jarsbe wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to see some examples of these apps, are you able to please share?

Sure: http://www.shinglecentral.com/ http://assistant.io/ http://lister.io/ Are just a few from the last 1.5 months.

how are doing those apps ?

Re: Why Meteor will kill Ruby on Rails

#147

Post by camus2 »

davexunit wrote: post #64
JPKab wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what Java guys said about Rails. "Hipness" is absolutely unrelated to whether something is actually good or not. I firmly believe that Meteor is a super fast way to build a certain kind of web app that just so happens to be very popular in businesses: CRUD apps where users can see other user's changes to data in real time. I will admit that older users are actually creeped out by other people seeing them type…

I'm not going to sing the praises of Rails. I think it is a pretty good framework, but it is one hell of a hype machine. As software gets older and more stable, people get bored and reinvent the wheel again, especially web developers that will stop at nothing until everything is written in Javascript. Rails was a fad. Meteor is a fad. Keep your nose out of hype.

Rails was such a fad it influenced every web framework after rails, and made Microsoft drop webforms.

Re: Why Meteor will kill Ruby on Rails

#148

Post by j1z0 »

mindcrime wrote: post #31

Did not read TFA, but my immediate thought on seeing this headline is "No, it won't". Why? Because software never really seems to die. Look at the billions of lines of COBOL or PL/I or FORTRAN still in use around the world. Look at the fact that (a few) people still use OS/2, which is about as dead as software ever really gets. Rails may well find it's popularity and prestige diminished, but I doubt it'll "die" anyti…

100% agree here. Way to many Rails developers around for it to die. Also as cool as Meteor is, and it's pretty cool. There is a huge continent of developers that will resist javascript for as long as possible, because even though it is ubiquitous, let's be honesty, it does suck in a number of ways. Ruby / Python / Go / etc.. are all so much nicer languages from a developer happiness perspective. Ultimately javascript will become more and more prevalent for sure, and Meteor along with it, but only because all the browsers decided to support it, NOT because of developer happiness.

Re: Why Meteor will kill Ruby on Rails

#149

Post by pyGuru »

j1z0 wrote: post #148
mindcrime wrote: post #31

Did not read TFA, but my immediate thought on seeing this headline is "No, it won't". Why? Because software never really seems to die. Look at the billions of lines of COBOL or PL/I or FORTRAN still in use around the world. Look at the fact that (a few) people still use OS/2, which is about as dead as software ever really gets. Rails may well find it's popularity and prestige diminished, but I doubt it'll "die" anyti…

100% agree here. Way to many Rails developers around for it to die. Also as cool as Meteor is, and it's pretty cool. There is a huge continent of developers that will resist javascript for as long as possible, because even though it is ubiquitous, let's be honesty, it does suck in a number of ways. Ruby / Python / Go / etc.. are all so much nicer languages from a developer happiness perspective. Ultimately javascript…

if only all the browsers would run python... now that would be developer happiness. ;)

Re: Why Meteor will kill Ruby on Rails

#150

Post by oliversong »

lambda wrote: post #116
rywalker wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry that was a deploy to fix the "oops, this page can't be found" that was flashing before the page loads. When we deploy Meteor, it hot fixes the client (i.e. restarts the app in your browser)

My skepticism here is due to the use of an "app in my browser" to display a static blog post. A blog post is fairly simple static content. My browser is an app that does fine at displaying it. By making the page an app that dynamically updates upon server changes, you actually substantially damaged my experience, as I was interrupted in the middle of reading the page. I'm not opposed to apps which dynamically update…

To be fair, this is something that you can easily change if you prefer to take the site down while deploying. Hot code pushes are a feature.

It's difficult to implement the same functionality with Rails, where the default is to be down while deploying.

Post reply on HN