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NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

washingtonpost.com

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Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#431

Post by snowwrestler »

whyenot wrote: post #314

As of 1:41pm PST, there is no mention of this news anywhere on the front page of the NY Times website. There have been similar ...time lags... in the past when covering Snowden related news at the NYT. It's a shame one of the most important news sources in the US is so slow in their coverage, either intentionally or not.

The NY Times is not Reddit. They will check the story through their own sources before publishing. They're not just going to repost the Washington Post story.

They're slow on Snowden stores because they do not have direct access to the Snowden documents, like the Guardian and WashPo do.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#432

Post by PavlovsCat »

a3n wrote: post #179
swombat wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically, if a diplomat constantly breaks the laws of the nation they're sent to in this manner, they get kicked out, and if the sender country in question keeps sending this sort of diplomat, the embassy would eventually be closed.

I cannot imagine Germany closing the US Embassy.

It certainly would make sense, since the US embassy in Berlin seems to be used for spying, too:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/cover-story-how-...

> "Research by SPIEGEL reporters in Berlin and Washington, talks with intelligence officials and the evaluation of internal documents of the US' National Security Agency and other information, most of which comes from the archive of former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, lead to the conclusion that the US diplomatic mission in the German capital has not merely been promoting German-American friendship. On the contrary, it is a nest of espionage. From the roof of the embassy, a special unit of the CIA and NSA can apparently monitor a large part of cellphone communication in the government quarter."

http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/tid-34373/infrarotbi...

^ "US diplomats could be expelled from the country"... mind you, they're not at all talking about closing the embassy, but "just" expelling those under diplomatic immunity who were doing this (and persecuting those not under diplomatic immunity). It might just be to look good for the Germany population, they might be serious... here's hoping.

http://daserste.ndr.de/panorama/media/usbotschaft105_v-ardga...

^ infrared image of the embassy rooftop which I saw on German TV, in a discussion which surprised me by its serious tone and the absence of handwaving or belittling.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#433

Post by pekk »

devx wrote: post #123

Here, Google - show us how much you care about user privacy and security, and join Lavabit and Silent Circle's alliance for the "Dark Mail" protocol: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/10/30/lavabit-a... Meanwhile I'll be waiting impatiently.

More promises to keep your information private, from people who already showed they are not competent to keep your information private. There is no reason Lavabit should have ever been able to disclose enough information to the government to get customers' messages

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#434

Post by PavlovsCat »

akjj wrote: post #408
danbruc wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am at a loss for words. Arrogant, self-righteous, disrespectful, ignorant, mendacious...nothing cuts it. It is illegal in the US but who cares about the rest of the world? I can not remember when something similar made me that angry as the current conduct of the US does. If I would not know better that this would negatively affect the whole world and innocent US citizens and that emotional reactions are usually not…

> It is illegal in the US but who cares about the rest of the world? I think it's entirely justifiable to give the NSA more latitude abroad than domestically. To turn reverse the scenario, as an American, I would far rather have the French or the Germans conducting surveillance on the United States than the US government. People keep comparisons to the Stasi, too often they forget what the Stasi's purpose was: to sup…

> People keep comparisons to the Stasi, too often they forget what the Stasi's purpose was: to suppress political opposition

That's however not how the Stasi thought of itself though, or how it was presented in propaganda.

http://andberlin.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/propaganda-in-t...

"For our security"

US intelligence agencies do keep tabs on stuff like Occupy, and of course it's officially "to prevent terrorism".. I for one don't buy it.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#435

Post by jsmeaton »

a3n wrote: post #411
jsmeaton wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there isn't! You might all feel that your government is misrepresenting you, but until serious action is taken, nothing is going to change. What that serious action is, I have no idea. Other countries have dealt with oppressive regimes before, some better than others.

But that's the thing, the government has strayed so far from the people that a) it's obvious they aren't going to seriously consider the people's will other than window dressing, and therefore b) the only way this kind of thing will change is through revolution. And we're far from revolution, if ever. The gap is there.

I agree with you - but I don't think that absolves US citizens of responsibility either.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#436

Post by cynix »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #373
bilbo0s wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a US citizen. Born and bred. And, at this point, I can't in good faith say that I would blame you. I think it's pretty safe to say that getting rid of a President is no longer enough. My sense is that the people who make these policies really are "Beyond Elections". They are constants in our government. And appear unassailable. I doubt very much that we, the American People, could even IDENTIFY the people setting…

No. Sorry. The President does bear full responsibility. That's the nature of the job. If he wants to claim he wasn't aware, OK. But he is now and it's his responsibility to fix it. Again, that's the nature of the job. If the President wanted to eliminate these programs, they'd get eliminated. It would require the exercise of political will, but it absolutely could be done. The problem, actually, is right here, when p…

> If the President wanted to eliminate these programs, they'd get eliminated.

Just like Guantanamo Bay, right?

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#437

Post by PeterisP »

SeanLuke wrote: post #336
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you really believe that this is the modus operandi only of the United States? Your fallacy is: Tu quoque http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Tu quoque is basically the "but everyone does it" argument. I agree that'd be specious -- but I'm not saying that. Rather, I'm the poster's claims ("arrogant, self-righteous, disrespectful, ignorant, mendacious") -- particularly "arrogant" -- imply that he thought the US was doing something unique that other countries are above, and thus the US was deserving of special disdain. This implication is simply wrong. But h…

Countries like Russia and China and Syria and Iran claim that they're spying on whatever they can and control their citizens online expression because (a) they say they need it / national security, (b) they are allowed to do it / sovereignity.

On the other hand, USA had earlier openly claimed in essence something like 'why we'd never, we don't spy on americans (Clapper), we don't record all communications, we're for the open net and transparency, we need to safeguard the internet from China and censorship, and we have 4th/1st amendment, so we're different'.

Everybody else who did that, didn't do it while hypocritically claiming that they're different - so I believe that US really did something unique in this particular instance and deserves special extra disdain for that.

The position of others is that doing all those things is okay, so they do it without moral problems. However, USA had claimed (and apparently still claims, at least for US-citizens) that it's not okay.... and do it anyway.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#438

Post by andrewcooke »

mpyne wrote: post #389
kamjam wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't too long ago that Obama himself said Ed Snowden was not a patriot. Said it then, will say it again. The hypocrisy just reeks.

Snowden isn't a patriot though. Certainly he has revealed a lot of scary information about the government that the people needed to know about, but opposing the state (which is what Snowden seems to do) does not always equate to supporting the nation. Some of Snowden's disclosures have been directly harmful to American interests without a corresponding harm being done to the American people that would have warranted…

first; you seem to be saying that each leak in isolation has to weigh in favour of the american people. a more lenient judgement might be made by taking everything as a whole and seeing if the benefits outweigh the costs. and even when the advantage is not direct, it may come later - for example, the international pressure from the leaks about intercepting foreign heads of states might lead to reduced surveillance of americans.

second; perhaps here on the internet we need something more international. perhaps he is a patriot in an international sense - since he works for the rights of all people. i certainly appreciate what he's done, and i am not american. of course, an alternative is to say that i am the enemy. but then we get to the american duplicity - they seem to want to be our friends, shake our hands, but then treat us as second class people.

[i wondered whether to include british duplicity with gchq, but they don't really make the same distinction. they seem to quite happily spy on britons and foreigners equally. they are not hypocrites, just assholes...]

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#439

Post by rhizome »

mden wrote: post #308
frank_boyd wrote: post #294

Curious to see who will continue to still use their products...

How would not using their products resolve the issue with the NSA? If people switched to other providers than other providers will get accessed like Google.

I'm sure the NSA likes having a one-stop shop. More nodes means more leaks, and if we've learned one thing through this, it's that the NSA would really rather do their work without oversight, which, as we've also learned, only happens as a result of leaks.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#440

Post by PeterisP »

w_t_payne wrote: post #112
mkr-hn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google might have an easier time recruiting edge producing developers than the NSA after the leaks.

I used to work in the antivirus industry, and, as I recall, anything that even hinted at a history of hacking or virus-writing would lead to instant dismissal and black-listing (from pretty much the entire computer security industry). I imagine that the same prohibition would now apply to former government employees also. The sad fact of the matter is that we cannot trust individuals that have ever worked with these…

I'm not sure if any security company would gain much by avoiding former government employees - you'd decline Abe Honest because he had worked in government earlier, but any Joe Infiltrator from NSA could come to your interview with CV, online profile + references/contacts claiming that he's worked in, say, Microsoft for 20 years.
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