Live data from Hacker News

The Impossible Music of Black MIDI

rhizome.org

91–100 of 180 posts

Re: The Impossible Music of Black MIDI

#91
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does that mean that piano music played on an insufficiently fancy piano is soulless as well?

I have a Kawai MP10 digital Piano and an old hand made analog Hofmann piano. If I play for example just the last Chord (6 Notes) of Chopin Prelude op. 28/4 on the Hofmann the music goes deep through every nerve. Nothing comparable happens on the Kawai even with very good speakers.

That's what people who buy monster ethernet cables say.

Re: The Impossible Music of Black MIDI

#92

As a pianist and an electronic musician, I never have any qualms about making music I can't play. This, however, is just ridiculous. The thing is, it's not at all hard to write a piano piece that's unplayable. Simply add a third note group far enough above or below the existing two note groups and it will be physically impossible to play (unless someone else helps you). It doesn't need to be a grotesque fountain of m…

It's not really 'unplayable' it's simply not playable by a single pianist at a single keyboard. It would entirely be possible to have 30 pianists at 30 keyboards playing these songs. The question then becomes, "Why?"

Re: The Impossible Music of Black MIDI

#93
post #88

I'm incredibly surprised by the negativity of the comments here. Taking a medium, in this case a piano midi track, and pushing it far beyond its limits, while still resulting in something resembling music, is just about as close to hacking as you can get. Also, constraints breed creativity, and this is just another example of that. It's not the type of music I would listen to generally, but insisting that this should…

No surprise -- the people making negative comments here are the same people who said $(your favourite rebellious composer) wasn't music. People who say that are always judged as wrong, in the end.

I think a lot of the dislike is from simply not understanding many of the techniques. E.g. in second example, there's a bit where the melody is extremely staccato, but the note length isn't achieved from the keyed duration but by a flurry of other percussive notes overwhelming the compressor/normaliser. I guess without knowing that it might seem uninteresting.

If you understand stuff like this you can appreciate the music. I'm not exactly going to sit down and listen to it in a dark room sipping some red wine, but it's a new and unique compositional technique that can be incorporated into other music.

Re: The Impossible Music of Black MIDI

#94

As a pianist and an electronic musician, I never have any qualms about making music I can't play. This, however, is just ridiculous. The thing is, it's not at all hard to write a piano piece that's unplayable. Simply add a third note group far enough above or below the existing two note groups and it will be physically impossible to play (unless someone else helps you). It doesn't need to be a grotesque fountain of m…

Ever played Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C# minor? 4 well separated simultaneous note groups in a couple of places. That makes it theoretically impossible to play...

[deleted]

Re: The Impossible Music of Black MIDI

#95

People here with critical perspectives are missing the point. "Where's the value?" The answer is that the people who make this music are not making music for you . They make it more as a personal challenge and/or to one-up their friends. There's a long history, going back to 80's[1], of artists abusing various computing platforms to write somewhat melodramatic music that pushes the boundaries of both traditional pop…

Some "scene" music that I actually listen to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GIemGd3Ctk&list=PLkMjO0BRqWu... (FM funk) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl7TjvZzWMY (Zabutom) Basically just really good 4-part harmony on 8-bit chips. It's really not unlike pre-Rennaisance church music (early polyphony), or a lot of modern choral music.

That first one reminds me more of a jazz / electro / rnb / funky house type of thing. Mixed with some japanese video games of course. If that's done entirely on one 8-bit chip it blows my freaking mind.

Re: The Impossible Music of Black MIDI

#96

I'm incredibly surprised by the negativity of the comments here. Taking a medium, in this case a piano midi track, and pushing it far beyond its limits, while still resulting in something resembling music, is just about as close to hacking as you can get. Also, constraints breed creativity, and this is just another example of that. It's not the type of music I would listen to generally, but insisting that this should…

Actually, this is kind of the opposite of constraint breeding creativity. You have removed the constraint of having to make a piece of music playable by a human and now you might have a 20 million note song not because it sounds good but just for the novelty of having so many notes. Like any other medium for art, there will of course be good and bad pieces created. But a million old-school geocities web pages w/ autoplaying embedded MIDI tracks I think serve as a good example that the default judgement is going to be harsh.

Re: The Impossible Music of Black MIDI

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever played Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C# minor? 4 well separated simultaneous note groups in a couple of places. That makes it theoretically impossible to play...

I'm assuming that since you bring up Rachmaninoff, you know that he reportedly had freakishly large hands, and was in the habit of writing things he could play, but others considered "impossible". To me, that's significantly different than black MIDI, which just seems silly, albeit vaguely amusing.

> large hands

Can't they make the piano keys a little smaller (narrower)?

Re: The Impossible Music of Black MIDI

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming that since you bring up Rachmaninoff, you know that he reportedly had freakishly large hands, and was in the habit of writing things he could play, but others considered "impossible". To me, that's significantly different than black MIDI, which just seems silly, albeit vaguely amusing.

I'm actually only referring to a couple of places in Prelude in C# minor. Most of the song is "almost impossible" for one reason or another, but there are a couple of places near the end where the lower octaves and the upper freakish chords are played simultaneously. The 9th and 11th measure from the end, to be precise. Even Rachmaninoff with his freak hands had to roll that.

It's not a song, it's a prelude. And actually not very technically difficult, one reason for its immediate and enduring popularity. The simultaneous chords are just played very quickly one after the other and not "rolled".

Re: The Impossible Music of Black MIDI

#100
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's better, yes. Still not my taste, but less monotonous. Still, I'm not sure this "genre" has a lot of depths to explore. Their time and their choice, of course.

Rock started as music most people thought was too simple to be interesting, and so did jazz and a lot of early electronic music. I think it's really premature to write off a music style most people haven't even heard of yet. Given how much interesting music (IMO) has come from things like serialist classical, I suspect it's only a matter of time before someone finds ways of producing interesting sorts of tone color t…

It's only a matter of time before someone in this scene rediscovers spectral music and creates a black MIDI version of Partiels (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX77MC5oXDY).

I also think the black MIDI examples that have been posted would sound significantly better with better instrumentation (that is, more expensive softsynths -- I am a fan of TruePianos, personally).

Post reply on HN