NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide • Hacker News Board

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#51

Post by leef » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 5:21 PM UTC

betterunix wrote: post #22

leef wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. The court system, even if it is rumber stamp-y, provides way more visibility and accountibility than secret and total access to Google's data via tapping data links.

The FISC is not visible or accountable to the public. NSLs must be kept secret by law. In other words, all courts do is provide the NSA with a minor speed bump when it wants to wiretap everyone.

It's mostly a moot point since it's overseas, but I doubt the secret court would be willing to pass through over 6 million FISC requests a day (181,280,466 requests every 30 days the NSA reportedly gets through this wire tapping). At the very least the FISC courts provide a bottleneck at whatever government 'efficiency' throughput they can provide.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#52

Post by mcphilip » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 5:23 PM UTC

I don't see how the pretense that the NSA actively avoids snooping on U.S. citizens can be seriously maintained after this revelation. It's becoming increasingly clear that intelligence agencies want the ability to access all data created directly or indirectly by an arbitrary cyberspace target on demand and will shop around for the "best" (e.g. weakest link in technology and/or legislature) nook of the net to snoop at.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#53

Post by nolok » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 5:23 PM UTC

than wrote: post #12

Gen. Keith Alexander, asked about it at a Bloomberg event, denied the accusations. "I don't know what the report is," Alexander cautioned, adding the NSA does not "have access to Google servers, Yahoo servers." He said the NSA is "not authorized" to do this, and instead, must "go through a court process." http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/keith-alexander-nsa-re...

Well given how many times he has been found lying, ...

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#54

Post by jumby » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 5:24 PM UTC

atonse wrote: post #34

gohrt wrote: post #7

I hope that this finally convinces everyone that it doesn't matter whether Google is "Evil" or Yahoo is more evil or whatever. What matters is that large cloud systems are fundamentally incapable of protecting data. Even the most goodhearted and the most talented teams can't reliably defend against a massively funded adversary. Secrets are for keeping, not sharing.

Well, I don't think it's that easy. If the NSA wanted your data, they could get into your network probably easier than they could get into Google's networks. Companies like Google have way smarter people (and working full time) securing data than most businesses. For us to secure our networks as much as someone like Google would, we'd have to have a team of the best hackers around. And by definition, the best hackers…

"They're already working for Google, etc, and X Y Z security company."

And the NSA, apparently.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#55

Post by mkr-hn » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 5:24 PM UTC

hackula1 wrote: post #50

mkr-hn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google might have an easier time recruiting edge producing developers than the NSA after the leaks.

I imagine anyone with a line on their resume that says "NSA - Software Developer - 2009:Present" is going to have a hard time finding a new job at many companies (although certainly not all).

I would expect Google and similarly enormous companies to have a process in place to keep rogue agents from inserting backdoors and malicious code.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#56

Post by dmix » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 5:26 PM UTC

betterunix wrote: post #19

jakewalker wrote: post #4

If that graphic - that taunting smiley face, drawn when it was assumed that no one was watching - isn't enough to outrage the general public, I don't know what it will take. This is not super technical - it's easily explained and should be easily understood by the masses. And it should cause outrage.

You know what would outrage the public? ESPN being shut down. Most people do not actually care about their privacy. Even if everyone had the technical chops needed to understand what has been happening, most people never spend much time contemplating the importance of privacy rights.

> people do not actually care about their privacy

This is 100% accurate, I've attempted to aggressively promote privacy tools well before the NSA/Snowden stuff among the people I know. They still don't care to use simple things like OTR with IM. They might use it for one week, and switch back.

Journalists/tech sites love making this seem like the biggest deal in society right now, but hardly the case in reality.

I'm not sure if it's an intellectual/knowledge gap (lack of technical knowledge), laziness, lack of good design in crypto tools, or just generally not caring about their privacy (until it becomes to hit them in the face).

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#57

Post by MrZongle2 » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 5:26 PM UTC

jakewalker wrote: post #4

If that graphic - that taunting smiley face, drawn when it was assumed that no one was watching - isn't enough to outrage the general public, I don't know what it will take. This is not super technical - it's easily explained and should be easily understood by the masses. And it should cause outrage.

It should, but it probably won't.

But the smiley is particularly infuriating, because it embodies the mindset behind this domestic spying: "we're better than you, we're smarter than you, and you can't do a damn thing about it, peons."

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#58

Post by alternize » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 5:26 PM UTC

than wrote: post #12

Gen. Keith Alexander, asked about it at a Bloomberg event, denied the accusations. "I don't know what the report is," Alexander cautioned, adding the NSA does not "have access to Google servers, Yahoo servers." He said the NSA is "not authorized" to do this, and instead, must "go through a court process." http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/keith-alexander-nsa-re...

while they might not have access to the "Google servers", it now is almost certain they have access to the "Google network" (i.e. fiber cable access). as seen in previous reports, intercepting sea fiber optic traffic between continents seems something the NSA has mastered...

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#59

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 5:27 PM UTC

robterrell wrote: post #45

than wrote: post #12

Gen. Keith Alexander, asked about it at a Bloomberg event, denied the accusations. "I don't know what the report is," Alexander cautioned, adding the NSA does not "have access to Google servers, Yahoo servers." He said the NSA is "not authorized" to do this, and instead, must "go through a court process." http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/keith-alexander-nsa-re...

Nothing he said actually responds to the allegations.

Specifically, he denies direct NSA access to the systems, and says that NSA would need to use a court process to gain such access, but the report is that the UK's GCHQ is actually tapping the systems and the GCHQ is sharing the captured data with NSA.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#60

Post by adventured » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 5:28 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #2

It's hard not to come to the conclusion that these activities were essentially criminal. I don't see how the administration can fail to disavow them, investigate them fully, and hold their instigators accountable. It feels like Special Prosecutor time. That aside, let me re-make a point I keep making: Google had no knowledge of NSA's physical compromise of their data centers. But still, they pushed harder than anyone…

It's far beyond special investigator time.

Obama should be impeached. Both Obama and Bush should be tried for criminal conduct. Both should be put in prison for decades for treason. Of course on top of that are the war crimes and general crimes against humanity both committed (torture, war, murder of thousands of civilians, and so on).