Pakistani family of drone strike victim gives harrowing testimony to Congress • Hacker News Board

Re: Pakistani family of drone strike victim gives harrowing testimony to Congress

#31

Post by r0h1n » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 4:26 AM UTC

srean wrote: post #26

My comment here will sound emotionally tone deaf and heartlessly opportunistic. Let there be no mistake I consider these operations that kill innocent Pakistanis despicable and illegal. At the same time I wish the political class that shaped the history of Pakistan take a tough and straight look at themselves and the role their decisions (in particular unfettered encouragement of Jihadism and building this identity o…

You're completely right about the relative trajectories of India and Pakistan (full disclosure: I'm Indian). I suspect most HNers will not be aware of their shared history, painful separation and subsequent diverging paths.

That said, no country ought to be above international law, even when they are targeting hapless & innocent civilians of a failing or despotic regime. That is the primary point here.

Re: Pakistani family of drone strike victim gives harrowing testimony to Congress

#32

Post by sb23 » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 4:31 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #19

jasonlotito wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the intent isn't to terrorize or murder innocent people, but to hit "military" targets. It's akin to dropping bombs on military targets during WW II. Just because they are military targets doesn't mean innocent people aren't killed. So it's classified as something else. And before you go shooting the messenger, keep in mind your asking about classification. If you want to disagree and suggest that it's still…

> Because the intent isn't to terrorize or murder innocent people, but to hit "military" targets. (...) Cue the pedantic replies. Oh, the irony. That's a pedantic distinction, if I ever saw one. Not to mention nothing about it is correct (perhaps that's why you felt the need to use quotes for the word military). Such strikes are not done as part of war and do not target military targets -- they were used in places li…

Have actual weddings been targeted by drones?

Re: Pakistani family of drone strike victim gives harrowing testimony to Congress

#33

Post by ganeshmr » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 4:42 AM UTC

all this after the person authorizing these has be awarded Nobel Peace Prize. Not respecting integrity of country and striking it at will because one can, is recipe for disaster. May be they wont strike back now but not many forget these things.

Re: Pakistani family of drone strike victim gives harrowing testimony to Congress

#34

Post by crdoconnor » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 4:48 AM UTC

srean wrote: post #27

cup wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obligatory pedantic reply: Palestinians who blow up busses in Israel are hitting military targets (all israeli citizens undergo compulsory military training and are part of a reserves contingent ergo are legitimate military targets. Or: Flying a plane into the pentagon. I mean its not as clear cut as you want it to be. The dresden bombings didnt clearly target military objects. Its not as simple as classification whe…

I cant see why this comment is getting downvoted.

Mob mentality.

Re: Pakistani family of drone strike victim gives harrowing testimony to Congress

#35

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 4:48 AM UTC

sb23 wrote: post #32

coldtea wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the intent isn't to terrorize or murder innocent people, but to hit "military" targets. (...) Cue the pedantic replies. Oh, the irony. That's a pedantic distinction, if I ever saw one. Not to mention nothing about it is correct (perhaps that's why you felt the need to use quotes for the word military). Such strikes are not done as part of war and do not target military targets -- they were used in places li…

Have actual weddings been targeted by drones?

[deleted]

Re: Pakistani family of drone strike victim gives harrowing testimony to Congress

#36

Post by res0nat0r » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 4:49 AM UTC

srean wrote: post #27

cup wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obligatory pedantic reply: Palestinians who blow up busses in Israel are hitting military targets (all israeli citizens undergo compulsory military training and are part of a reserves contingent ergo are legitimate military targets. Or: Flying a plane into the pentagon. I mean its not as clear cut as you want it to be. The dresden bombings didnt clearly target military objects. Its not as simple as classification whe…

I cant see why this comment is getting downvoted.

Probably because he purposefully ignored mentioning the two non military buildings in NYC that were also hit.

Re: Pakistani family of drone strike victim gives harrowing testimony to Congress

#37

Post by rjuyal » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 4:52 AM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #16

peterkelly wrote: post #5

Can someone explain to me why this isn't classed as terrorism or murder when it's done by the US military?

Because the intent isn't to terrorize or murder innocent people, but to hit "military" targets. It's akin to dropping bombs on military targets during WW II. Just because they are military targets doesn't mean innocent people aren't killed. So it's classified as something else. And before you go shooting the messenger, keep in mind your asking about classification. If you want to disagree and suggest that it's still…

Few innocents died while killing terrorists. I see no harm in that. In any case that single terrorist would have killed lots of innocent. That innocent could be from USA, Russia, Israel, India. And at that time there will be hue and cry saying it is intelligence failure.

Innocents will die either by terrorists or may be by US drones.

Re: Pakistani family of drone strike victim gives harrowing testimony to Congress

#38

Post by tdfx » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 4:53 AM UTC

sb23 wrote: post #32

coldtea wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the intent isn't to terrorize or murder innocent people, but to hit "military" targets. (...) Cue the pedantic replies. Oh, the irony. That's a pedantic distinction, if I ever saw one. Not to mention nothing about it is correct (perhaps that's why you felt the need to use quotes for the word military). Such strikes are not done as part of war and do not target military targets -- they were used in places li…

Have actual weddings been targeted by drones?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wech_Baghtu_wedding_party_airst...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deh_Bala_wedding_party_airstrik...

I'm not sure whether the airstrikes were performed by manned aircraft or drones.

Re: Pakistani family of drone strike victim gives harrowing testimony to Congress

#39

Post by nebulasri » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 4:54 AM UTC

srean wrote: post #26

My comment here will sound emotionally tone deaf and heartlessly opportunistic. Let there be no mistake I consider these operations that kill innocent Pakistanis despicable and illegal. At the same time I wish the political class that shaped the history of Pakistan take a tough and straight look at themselves and the role their decisions (in particular unfettered encouragement of Jihadism and building this identity o…

dear srean, It would help a lot if you go through history of India. Also learn more about Jihad and how it is funded.

Re: Pakistani family of drone strike victim gives harrowing testimony to Congress

#40

Post by rurounijones » Wed, Oct 30, 2013, 4:54 AM UTC

vowelless wrote: post #4

rurounijones wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I am a gamer. Putting 21 year old kids* brought up on video-games (esp the "Call of Duty" and "Battlefield" crop) all their lives in charge of drones with very video-game like setup and interactions sounds like a pretty good recipe for disaster[1]. * Yes, I know they are not all that young but I have seen photos in the news and I would be surprised if they were any older. [1] "Scenario fulfillment" implic…

> very video-game like setup and interactions sounds like a pretty good recipe for disaster[1]. The Iran Air disaster had nothing to do with "video games" and "21 year old kids". It was a case of mistaken identity during a very turbulent time in the region. I think it is a red herring to refer to that disaster when talking about drone strikes.

I only referred to the the Iran Air disaster because "Scenario fulfillment" was implicated as playing a part in the problem.

Being trained in various scenarios combined with a high-stress situation resulted in one of the crew misinterpreting the data and claiming the plane was diving (like an attack run) instead of climbing (which it was really doing)

Basically it is scientific way of saying something like "force of habit" (with more to it, that is a bit of a dumbed-down view)

Which I can easily see transferring to drone pilots raised on a diet of CoD, Battlefield etc.

(There is a very good documentary about the entire Iran Air thing which talks about it, you can see it on youtube.)