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Here's how I deal with users who steal

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Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#171

Post by Flimm »

mistercow wrote: post #146
fijal wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one would like to see a study that shows that people who read bible are more moral than people who don't read bible (or people who play video games). In my anecdotal evidence, there is no real correlation, but hey, science.

I read a study a while back (and I cannot seem to find it now, annoyingly) that found that people with high moral status (priests, judges, etc.) behaved less morally than ordinary people. Which makes sense in terms of evolution; if you're already viewed by everyone as moral, acting morally is a waste of resources and opportunities.

Which set of morals were used? How were people's morality assessed? How comprehensive was it? What about secret behaviour? In terms of evolution, surely there are benefits to behaving morally other than reciprocation and social status.

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#173

Post by rmc »

mcherm wrote: post #164
rmc wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A study like that would be almost impossible to do. A lot depends on how you define "moral". Is telling a gay person "Homosexuality is wrong" moral or immoral? Is admitting that "Mohammed is the final messanger of God" moral or immoral? Is calling the Pope God's representative on earth moral or immoral? Is calling Jesus devine moral or immoral? Until you can define what you're trying to measure, you cannot do any stu…

> Is telling a gay person "Homosexuality is wrong" moral or immoral? Maybe. Because it is a question on which significant numbers of people differ, it would be a poor choice for such a study. > Is admitting that "Mohammed is the final messanger [sic] of God" moral or immoral? No. > Is calling the Pope God's representative on earth moral or immoral? No. > Is calling Jesus devine [sic] moral or immoral? No. > Until you…

> Not every action is moral or immoral

True, but there are some actions which some people think are moral, and some think are immoral. The religious questions I gave are like that. People disagree about whether an action is moral or immoral. Some Christians will think that it's moral and right and good to call Jesus divine (and a sin and immoral to claim the opposite), whereas some (say) Muslims will think that it's blashpemy and wrong and immoral to call Jesus divine (and a moral and good thing to claim the opposite).

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#174

Post by nzp »

makmanalp wrote: post #14

This is neat. There is also the other conscience option: Whenever they make money and you're about to send it to them, pop a message saying "Hey, we got your money for you, are you sure you kept your end of the bargain?". Then offer them a chance to pay again or subtract from what they made.

I don't know about this (and I see this idea expressed in other comments)... Something about that just seems wrong to me.

What DistroKid is doing is showing good will to users who for whatever reason decide to game the system. It's a fair and square proposition: "This service costs money, we see you are trying to game the system and instead of just kicking you out we are willing to assume you're going to be honest and pay if you can really afford. It's the choice we made (to trust our customers), and that's it."

Constantly nagging about payments, when they already agreed to let people not pay, would in my opinion and taste be just pathetic. The message that would send (again, in my opinion) is: "Remember when we said we trusted you? Yeah, well, that was just to get our foot in the door. We don't, so now not only will we take your money, we'll insult your intelligence with this passive aggressive message." I assumed you're proposing this message pops out as the second phase of the current scenario. OTOH, if they offered this kind of deal right from the start it would be a different thing, but please -- sans passive aggressive pop-ups on morality. ;) That said, I think what DistroKid is doing now, as it is, is perfect.

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#175

Post by tedks »

chm wrote: post #102
bemmu wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company I used to work for made bible software. You could browse different bible versions side-by-side, collect verses etc., designed for people seriously into it (like priests composing their sermon). But some of these people would still copy the software instead of ordering the disk from us. We didn't really detect that, but the boss added a screen that just randomly pops up reminding the user that if you are run…

My little finger tells me you would have received less calls if the company sold video games, or pornography, for example.

It depends on the video game or the porn in question. A Bible is going to prime for social/moral thoughts and feelings in a very significant way. For a religious person I doubt there's anything that could make attitudes about morality more accessible, and accessibility is almost the whole story for behavior.

I think if a video game loading screen told you "Piracy is WRONG!" it would be ineffective in GTA, neutral in Civilization, and effective about half the time in Mass Effect.

Likewise, if gonzo porn had interstitials about how copying is wrong, I doubt anyone would be moved by it, but if political feminist porn had little interludes where the director said she didn't make much off her work and would rather you support her, it would almost certainly be effective.

People who are religious will happily do a whole number of viciously amoral things, like go to war, kill people, or make others feel subhuman for their gender or sex preferences. But people in general will react as the situation warrants, and if you can control that situation you can control people.

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#176

Post by nfoz »

hobs wrote: post #81
nfoz wrote: post #77

Personally, I consider "free if you refer 5 users" sort of an offensive trick. It presents quite odorously the falseness behind the $20/yr pricetag, and makes me value the ethics behind that price less.

Really? To me that means the service thinks that if can subsidize new users because the initial cost isnt as much as their purchases will make, and no business makes all of its revenue from a first time shopper (with rare exceptions). That means the service thinks each user is worth about 4 bucks. Actually not that expensive of a lead generation if it brings in 20 a year. I would be interested in your thoughts regard…

You're thinking entirely from the business side; how a business perceives its profit model.

As a consumer, and thinking specifically to when I had less means: perhaps wrongly, but I have an acute perception of the value of anything I purchase in terms of the work that actually goes into its production. I'll pay for a service if I'm not being scammed, if some real human effort went into producing it. If it's just a copy of something that was already produced, then there's nothing for me to pay for.

Similarly, if it costs $x but "free if you tell 5 friends", suddenly the whole experience is cheapened. It's perfectly concievable that I could tell 5 "friends" and this has 0 effect on you. My mind starts to wander. Why should I pay more because I don't have 5 friends? Why should I pay more because I'm not willing to shill myself out and strain the relationships I have, to give you some cheap advertising? I consider the premise offensive, and I also see that maybe you don't need the $20 as much as I do.

It's not a great way of thinking, but I think the onus is on the salesperson to have some respect for their clients and not smugly write them off as "stealers" when their storefront provided what might be perceived by those clients as a sales trick. shrug

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#177

Post by nfoz »

ozh wrote: post #139
vishal0123 wrote: post #137

How can they detect user who refers the fake account. I would love to get this functionality in my site too.

I guess most users won't bother making it complicated to track down: same IP, cookies, session, whatever.

Does that mean I can't refer a family member?

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#178

Post by nfoz »

bemmu wrote: post #99
nostromo wrote: post #8

Interesting that the "scholarship" (free) plan isn't mentioned on the homepage. It seems you have to try and steal the product before being offered the free plan. I also like the subtle dig, "if you can't afford it." I've certainly pirated things myself. If iTunes asked me, "We noticed you've pirated The Walking Dead. If you can't afford $3, click here to get it for free." By reframing it as charity I might be shamed…

A company I used to work for made bible software. You could browse different bible versions side-by-side, collect verses etc., designed for people seriously into it (like priests composing their sermon). But some of these people would still copy the software instead of ordering the disk from us. We didn't really detect that, but the boss added a screen that just randomly pops up reminding the user that if you are run…

Copying is not wrong, your business model was wrong. Shame on you for causing feelings of shame amongst your users while you try to condition them against what should be an acceptable and moral action: sharing software and sharing their religious texts.

Copyright should be abolished, and this is a moral issue.

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#179

Post by nzp »

jasonwilk wrote: post #26

You could probably write something interesting with a Spokeo, LinkedIn or Klout API that would give a pretty solid idea of whether or not you're dealing with someone broke or just trying to not ante up. Great idea though! Nothing wrong with a little Shaming!

I don't think this is shaming. First of all, people who would genuinely feel ashamed if caught in this situation have such a punishing super-ego that they would be extremely unlikely to engage in cheating in the first place. Second, if you really have no money there's nothing to be ashamed of. It's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, and this service acknowledges that gentlemanly and with style.

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#180

Post by JoeAltmaier »

nfoz wrote: post #178
bemmu wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company I used to work for made bible software. You could browse different bible versions side-by-side, collect verses etc., designed for people seriously into it (like priests composing their sermon). But some of these people would still copy the software instead of ordering the disk from us. We didn't really detect that, but the boss added a screen that just randomly pops up reminding the user that if you are run…

Copying is not wrong, your business model was wrong. Shame on you for causing feelings of shame amongst your users while you try to condition them against what should be an acceptable and moral action: sharing software and sharing their religious texts. Copyright should be abolished, and this is a moral issue.

Shame on you for judging. This was their business model. The software didn't exist; open source didn't create it. Wrong or not, there they were, like millions before them, creating value and wanting to be paid for it.

I know you are trolling, but you made it a moral issue not me.

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