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Bitcoin, The Economic Singularity: From Holland with Love

bitcoinmagazine.com

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Re: Bitcoin, The Economic Singularity: From Holland with Love

#21

Post by pjc50 »

snitko wrote: post #9

> there’s a better chance that banks and governments of the world will start to get serious about cleaning up the global mess they’ve created Never gonna happen. Bitcoin is the cleaning we need. There's absolutely no incentive for governments or banks (which are in bed with governments) to make things better for those, who are not in the club. I don't think Bitcoin's gonna wipe out the very idea of government, but it…

Bitcoin seems to be a very good way of creating a new "club" of a small number of bitcoin-wealthy at the expense of everyone else. Being resistant to legal action is not an advantage, it will create an environment rife with fraud and security risks.

Re: Bitcoin, The Economic Singularity: From Holland with Love

#22

Post by wwwtyro »

JonSkeptic wrote: post #14

The article is interesting in that it quotes Dutch Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem saying: "Bitcoin is not electronic money… At present its eventual impact on the real economy seems negligible…Bitcoin is not a financial product as defined by law. (Mediation in) the purchase or sale of Bitcoins is not a financial service either, so the Financial Supervision Act does not apply." Then the article goes on to say: >i…

> If it grows too much, it will be recognized as a currency and regulated.

Honest, non-rhetorical question: How? (In the sense of both the goals of the regulation and the means of enforcement.)

Re: Bitcoin, The Economic Singularity: From Holland with Love

#23

Post by zanny »

JonSkeptic wrote: post #14

The article is interesting in that it quotes Dutch Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem saying: "Bitcoin is not electronic money… At present its eventual impact on the real economy seems negligible…Bitcoin is not a financial product as defined by law. (Mediation in) the purchase or sale of Bitcoins is not a financial service either, so the Financial Supervision Act does not apply." Then the article goes on to say: >i…

> it will be recognized as a currency and regulated.

I'm still wondering how any government would plan to "regulate" it. In the same way a lot of contractors want to pay by cash so they can go under the table on their annual income for tax purposes, if you don't publish a link between your bitcoin address and yourself then it would be impossible for a government to oversee your bitcoin activity until you somehow tied a transaction back to your real identity.

Re: Bitcoin, The Economic Singularity: From Holland with Love

#24

Post by mattstreet »

oleganza wrote: post #15
snitko wrote: post #9

> there’s a better chance that banks and governments of the world will start to get serious about cleaning up the global mess they’ve created Never gonna happen. Bitcoin is the cleaning we need. There's absolutely no incentive for governments or banks (which are in bed with governments) to make things better for those, who are not in the club. I don't think Bitcoin's gonna wipe out the very idea of government, but it…

But who will build the roads? We need someone to force people to do stuff in public's interest .

Require real money for things related to those services? Such as buying gasoline?

Re: Bitcoin, The Economic Singularity: From Holland with Love

#25

Post by oleganza »

i_am_dead wrote: post #16
oleganza wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Your cash can be devalued by printing more cash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing 2. If you move or store cash, it can be confiscated by the police: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/nation/july-dec13/assets_08-1... Bitcoin is impossible to "print" more than scheduled and it's much easier to transport and store safely than cash or gold.

1) What about gold then? 2) The Silk Road bitcoins were confiscated by police just fine. In fact Bitcoin is in some ways easier to trace and therefore confiscate. If the cops can trace a transaction to you they just apply some rubber hose cryptography.

More than 90% of gold value is speculative. This all will move to Bitcoin as it's superior by all measures. Storing and transporting gold is just way too expensive. The universe wants one money: http://blog.oleganza.com/post/54121516413/the-universe-wants...

Rubber hose is more expensive than QE. You can steal one person's stash, but cannot steal from millions at once (well, you can, but it'll be too obvious and very expensive). Just watch zebras crossing the river infested with crocodiles. The fiat currency is when all zebras find themselves in the slaughterhouse.

Re: Bitcoin, The Economic Singularity: From Holland with Love

#26

Post by MarcusVorenus »

innino wrote: post #4

What is Bitcoin's deeper significance? I don't know much, but here are some sketches. 1) Bitcoin has the potential to destroy the tools of monetary policy. 2) Bitcoin has the potential to hide taxable income from governments. 3) Governments with dwindling tax bases may react by printing traditional currency, hastening the flight to Bitcoin in a vicious cycle. 4) Traditional currencies may collapse as people rush to c…

The only thing that governments would need to do to stay in business is to tax things that can't be hidden, like land and real estate. I'm hoping they go with a single land value tax.

Re: Bitcoin, The Economic Singularity: From Holland with Love

#27

Post by pjc50 »

zorked wrote: post #18
innino wrote: post #4

What is Bitcoin's deeper significance? I don't know much, but here are some sketches. 1) Bitcoin has the potential to destroy the tools of monetary policy. 2) Bitcoin has the potential to hide taxable income from governments. 3) Governments with dwindling tax bases may react by printing traditional currency, hastening the flight to Bitcoin in a vicious cycle. 4) Traditional currencies may collapse as people rush to c…

I don't understand why people think Bitcoin necessarily leads to governments collapsing. Bitcoin can be regulated in many ways: 1. If you buy a house you must show evidence that you earned the money. You can't earn all your Bitcoins Breaking-Bad (or Silk-Road) style and expect that the government will think your new-found fortune is ok. Thanks to the blockchain you kind of can't lie too much, unlike, say, cash. 2. If…

Except that finite money supply in a growing economy with positive interest rates is both deflationary and a driver of increasing inequality.

Sensible active monetary policy and "lender of last resort" activities are vital to functioning modern economies. That's why they had to be enacted in Europe during the financial crisis despite not being properly provided for by the existing Euro framework.

Re: Bitcoin, The Economic Singularity: From Holland with Love

#28

Post by oleganza »

mattstreet wrote: post #24
oleganza wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who will build the roads? We need someone to force people to do stuff in public's interest .

Require real money for things related to those services? Such as buying gasoline?

Some economists suggest a better measure: establish a coercive currency and print it as they like to pay for public goods. Just put a gun to people's face when they don't want fiat currency and then print all you want. Very practical solution.

Re: Bitcoin, The Economic Singularity: From Holland with Love

#29

Post by oleganza »

pjc50 wrote: post #21
snitko wrote: post #9

> there’s a better chance that banks and governments of the world will start to get serious about cleaning up the global mess they’ve created Never gonna happen. Bitcoin is the cleaning we need. There's absolutely no incentive for governments or banks (which are in bed with governments) to make things better for those, who are not in the club. I don't think Bitcoin's gonna wipe out the very idea of government, but it…

Bitcoin seems to be a very good way of creating a new "club" of a small number of bitcoin-wealthy at the expense of everyone else. Being resistant to legal action is not an advantage, it will create an environment rife with fraud and security risks.

Bitcoin owners become wealthy not by stealing, but because government is stealing from people via money printing and capital controls and regulations. Then, "wealthy bitcoiners" gladly share part of their investment and teach everyone about Bitcoin for free.

Re: Bitcoin, The Economic Singularity: From Holland with Love

#30

Post by oleganza »

snitko wrote: post #17
oleganza wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who will build the roads? We need someone to force people to do stuff in public's interest .

Where we're going we don't need roads http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flge_rw6RG0

That's the best answer.
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