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Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 at the height of cynicism

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Re: Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 at the height of cynicism

#21

Post by garethm »

mattmaroon wrote: post #19
axod wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> If IE6 were holding it back for so long, why did it >> miraculously stop, even though nothing changed? The >> answer, of course, is that it wasn't IE6. It was the lack >> of a business model, which was inadvertently solved by >> Google. I think one reason was that Netscape had got so big and unwieldy that users didn't see a compelling case to switch from IE once MS forced them into using it. Firefox changed all th…

It is important to note that IE6 didn't suck at first relative to its competition. It just didn't improve while the rest of the web did at the speed of light. I know it's hard to remember that when you're trying to find workarounds for lack of png transparency or figure out why your divs aren't where they should be. Firefox clearly started happening before they found such a great way to monetize, but I have a hard ti…

In Europe, Microsoft will not be selling any version of Windows 7 that includes IE. See http://microsoftontheissues.com/cs/blogs/mscorp/archive/2009...

Re: Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 at the height of cynicism

#22

Post by johnnybgoode »

timdorr wrote: post #4

Also, turns out one of Microsoft's updates to IE8 actually breaks this contest from working: http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090617/internet-explorer-... I can't reiterate enough how absolutely hilarious that is.

Plus, after the update broke IE8, they tried to fix it and failed: "It appears the Compatibility View list cannot be overridden."

If the press does its job, this whole thing will be a net loss for Microsoft.

Re: Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 at the height of cynicism

#23

Post by nkassis »

junofan wrote: post #18

"It's not as stupid as it sounds." - Lol. IE8 isn't that bad. Sure it's slow, but most everything you'd need is implemented. I don't like the haughty tone of the contest, but meh. Firefox fans have run similar campaigns, e.g. http://wedontsupportie.com/

That was in reference to IE6 which was a pain in the ass to support and required a site to be written with tons of exceptions.

Re: Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 at the height of cynicism

#24

Post by axod »

mattmaroon wrote: post #19
axod wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> If IE6 were holding it back for so long, why did it >> miraculously stop, even though nothing changed? The >> answer, of course, is that it wasn't IE6. It was the lack >> of a business model, which was inadvertently solved by >> Google. I think one reason was that Netscape had got so big and unwieldy that users didn't see a compelling case to switch from IE once MS forced them into using it. Firefox changed all th…

It is important to note that IE6 didn't suck at first relative to its competition. It just didn't improve while the rest of the web did at the speed of light. I know it's hard to remember that when you're trying to find workarounds for lack of png transparency or figure out why your divs aren't where they should be. Firefox clearly started happening before they found such a great way to monetize, but I have a hard ti…

As far as I remember, MS made sure that no OEM was able to ship a PC with any other browser installed. Or at least made it not in their interest to try to.

Re: Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 at the height of cynicism

#25

Post by nebula »

paulgb wrote: post #12
jackmoore wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can they call FireFox 'old'? IE8 may be the best IE, but it's still a year or more behind the other browsers, and FF is very actively being developed. 3.5RC1 just came out in the past 24 hours.

I wonder if they are checking the firefox version number. For me on Firefox 3.0, it just says "you'll never find it with that browser".

I wonder if they are checking the firefox version number

I guess not. I use FF 3.0.x and they said "old Fire Fox". It looks like many people are actually downloading IE8 to participate in this. Hopefully, this actually may not change the market share of IE vis-a-vis its competitors. If you are an FF user, even if you download IE8 and participate in this contest, you are most likely to stick to FF. IOW I'm hoping that the downloads won't actually translate to conversions from other browsers. One good thing that might come out of this is some IE6 upgrades to IE8.

Re: Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 at the height of cynicism

#26

Post by nebula »

invisible wrote: post #20

We need someone to win the contest using Firefox (changing their user agent) and just viewing source when appropriate (to avoid IE "compatibility" bugs that hide things).

Or better, can someone quickly release an FF extension which can beat this? That would be an interesting counter strike :)

Re: Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 at the height of cynicism

#27

Post by mechanical_fish »

mattmaroon wrote: post #16
axod wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so comes the totally unbiased voice of an ms fanboy ;) Seriously. They employed anti competitive practices to grab market share from Netscape. Once they had completely obliterated Netscape, they decided to not update IE6 and leave users suffering. It's like their aim with IE6 was to kill off the web. Or at least make it suck so much that webapps would be delayed for 10 years - which they pretty much achieved. Obv…

I haven't used any version of IE (other than for testing, or where sites require it) since the first time I tried out Firefox, which I think was called Phoenix back when I started. But the issue I have with that logic is that nothing ever changed with their so-called "anti-competitive practices", and yet the browser market did drastically when Firefox started picking up steam. IE kept on being bundled with every Wind…

The answer, of course, is that it wasn't IE6. It was the lack of a business model...

As I recall, Netscape had a business model back before Microsoft set out to use monopoly power to deliberately destroy it.

Your argument reminds me of the old joke about the guy who kills his parents and then runs around asking for sympathy because he's an orphan.

Of course, it's quite possible that Netscape's original business model was nonviable. There were plenty of silly business models around in the old days. We'll never really know. But this doesn't let Microsoft off the hook: Shooting someone who has a terminal illness is still murder.

Re: Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 at the height of cynicism

#28

Post by mattmaroon »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #27
mattmaroon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't used any version of IE (other than for testing, or where sites require it) since the first time I tried out Firefox, which I think was called Phoenix back when I started. But the issue I have with that logic is that nothing ever changed with their so-called "anti-competitive practices", and yet the browser market did drastically when Firefox started picking up steam. IE kept on being bundled with every Wind…

The answer, of course, is that it wasn't IE6. It was the lack of a business model... As I recall, Netscape had a business model back before Microsoft set out to use monopoly power to deliberately destroy it. Your argument reminds me of the old joke about the guy who kills his parents and then runs around asking for sympathy because he's an orphan. Of course, it's quite possible that Netscape's original business model…

From the latest Joel on Software post: "Dave Winer (in 2007): 'Sometimes developers choose a niche that’s either directly in the path of the vendor, or even worse, on the roadmap of the vendor. In those cases, they don’t really deserve our sympathy.'"

That's Netscape. They had a nonviable business model in charging for something that ended up on the roadmap of every platform they were on. You can hate Microsoft all you want, but Apple bundles a browser with their OS for free too, and would have done the same if they owned the market. And then everyone would be complaining that Safari held us all back.

Firefox found a viable business model and the browser wars began again. That's all there is to it.

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