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Here's how I deal with users who steal

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Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#81

Post by hobs »

nfoz wrote: post #77

Personally, I consider "free if you refer 5 users" sort of an offensive trick. It presents quite odorously the falseness behind the $20/yr pricetag, and makes me value the ethics behind that price less.

Really? To me that means the service thinks that if can subsidize new users because the initial cost isnt as much as their purchases will make, and no business makes all of its revenue from a first time shopper (with rare exceptions).

That means the service thinks each user is worth about 4 bucks. Actually not that expensive of a lead generation if it brings in 20 a year.

I would be interested in your thoughts regarding this, because I have seem some lead generation sites pay 50 dollars for the right kind of lead.

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#82

Post by rattray »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #79
ars wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if someone can afford it, but isn't willing to? To me that means the price is too high, so maybe also let them set their own price?

+1 point for making the most entitled statement I've heard this week

that kind of sarcasm strikes me as needlessly acerbic.

FWIW, his idea struck me as logical. I might be able to afford something that still doesn't make sense for me to buy, since I don't get eg; $20 of value from it. See econ101. But I'm not sure PWYW would be the solution here.

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#83

Post by forrestthewoods »

dllthomas wrote: post #80
forrestthewoods wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good thing a service to help individuals sell their music on a variety of online services isn't essential.

It might be, if making music is the only real way you have to make money. Of course, in that case I would hope that you would use your proceeds to pay the service pretty quickly.

Essentials for Life: food, water, shelter, and cheap access to internet services created by other people.

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#85

Post by [deleted] »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #83
dllthomas wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be, if making music is the only real way you have to make money. Of course, in that case I would hope that you would use your proceeds to pay the service pretty quickly.

Essentials for Life: food, water, shelter, and cheap access to internet services created by other people.

[deleted]

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#86

Post by ballard »

caf wrote: post #63
jackweirdy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RE no homepage mention of it: I suspect there are those who would try to get it for free, regardless of how much it costs. It's probably more successful in converting those who wouldn't have paid in the first place - IE by reminding them that they've been "caught out". Having said that, no homepage mention may be turning away the honest users who might genuinely be unable to afford it. Only offering a discount to tho…

This - rewarding deviousness - troubled me about the system too. Perhaps, instead of explicitly mentioning the Scholarship accounts on the homepage, there could be text along lines of "Struggling to get by and can't afford it? Email us and we'll see what we can do."

TL;DR - this is a shrewd play for a number of reasons.

You don't understand, it's just business.

Furthermore, the conversion of requiring people to beg via email to explain they're broke is next to zero. People won't do it. They'll take the POLR: fake accounts. Kicking them out also won't help: they can attack the brand and also if they succeed, the service looks like the bad guys. Furthermore, it builds stats by having more accounts registered on the platform. Whether those fake accounts get killed off is up to the business owner. Is padding stats worth the liability and cost of junk accounts?

We're still talking about DistroKid, so it just bought them free PR.

The point is everyone can make more money by taking a calculated gamble on positive ROI giveaways. The unit cost of an app is often pennies. Any concern about mass defection of paid users to unpaid is unlikely if the service is good and shows trying to take the high road. And that adds goodwill valuation to the brand. These intangibles make the service of higher value than a formulaic subscription service that thinks short-term only. It's not quite the same as selling gym memberships. :)

The meta is that when a service is small, keeping CAC low and getting as many users as possible while maintaining cool is hard. The churn between paid, unpaid and closed accounts is also a delicate dance to keep satisficing toward $. Sometimes giving accounts away in exchange for something non-monetary is a way go (real friends or not).

And also, don't forget gangster marketing: http://youtu.be/t73Q3f4YjwQ

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#87

Post by judk »

mooreds wrote: post #27
ars wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if someone can afford it, but isn't willing to? To me that means the price is too high, so maybe also let them set their own price?

If someone can afford a product, but isn't willing to, then they should look elsewhere for the value provided by the product, or live without it. That's embedded in the definition of a market--sellers get to choose the price, buyers get to choose whether or not to buy.

Actually a market is a place to negotiate prices. Seller-fixed prices are an American curiosity.

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#88

Post by [deleted] »

prawn wrote: post #23
ars wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if someone can afford it, but isn't willing to? To me that means the price is too high, so maybe also let them set their own price?

It's $20 for a chance to greatly simplify selling your music. If someone doesn't see value in that, leave them to submit everything manually IMO. Can't get dragged down by tightarses.

[deleted]

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#89

Post by stevenkovar »

I think it would be interesting to make it free to use, until you want to start collecting your royalties.

Perhaps give them the option to apply their first $19 in royalties to the service (or at some discounted rate, as you can potentially collect interest on unclaimed royalties at scale).

Re: Here's how I deal with users who steal

#90

Post by cam_l »

jackweirdy wrote: post #20
nostromo wrote: post #8

Interesting that the "scholarship" (free) plan isn't mentioned on the homepage. It seems you have to try and steal the product before being offered the free plan. I also like the subtle dig, "if you can't afford it." I've certainly pirated things myself. If iTunes asked me, "We noticed you've pirated The Walking Dead. If you can't afford $3, click here to get it for free." By reframing it as charity I might be shamed…

RE no homepage mention of it: I suspect there are those who would try to get it for free, regardless of how much it costs. It's probably more successful in converting those who wouldn't have paid in the first place - IE by reminding them that they've been "caught out". Having said that, no homepage mention may be turning away the honest users who might genuinely be unable to afford it. Only offering a discount to tho…

"seems to be rewarding deviousness" There is a common misalignment of values, between that which is 'practical' and that which is 'right'. You see this with arguments about such things as safe injecting rooms or wahtever.

I think this is a great practical solution. They are not being rewarded with a free product (they have that already), they are being rewarded with shame and/or understanding.

The shame of being caught out may make them stop stealing. The understanding may encourage them to stick with the product and buy when they do have the money, or recommend it to others. Win / win solutions are rare and beautiful and should not be discarded for spurious moral values.

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