Be careful Ryan Zhou is the same person with the sketchy past behind Bitcoinica. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoinica
Show HN: Bitbillpay - Pay any PostBillPay biller in Australia with Bitcoin
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Re: Show HN: Bitbillpay - Pay any PostBillPay biller in Australia with Bitcoin
#22Be careful Ryan Zhou is the same person with the sketchy past behind Bitcoinica. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoinica Context: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81581.0
To fairly judge my background, you should really only look at Bitcoinica between Sep 2011 and Jan 2012, when I actually had a management role in the business. The subsequent mis-management was entirely out of my control. I owned exactly zero percent of the company before, during and after any of the three hacks. I sold all assets related to Bitcoinica in November 2011 (~4 months before the first "Linode hack").
I honestly want Bitcoin to be successful, and that's why I joined CoinJar and started the journey all over again.
Re: Show HN: Bitbillpay - Pay any PostBillPay biller in Australia with Bitcoin
#23Further to my response to a comment stating that this does not fall foul of AUSTRAC's requirements, I think it does break the law with respect to the Corporations Act's requirements for an Australian Financial Services License (AFSL)... http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/ASIC.NSF/byHeadline/Licensing "An Australian financial services (AFS) licence authorises licensees to: 1 provide financial product advice to clients; 2 dea…
I can't see how Bitbillpay is remotely a custodial or depository service. No dollar ever changes hands (I pay your bills with my credit card, and you pay me in Bitcoin). Australia Post also explicitly allows "third party bill payments" in their terms of service.
Re: Show HN: Bitbillpay - Pay any PostBillPay biller in Australia with Bitcoin
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
AUSTRAC has explicitly mentioned that Bitcoin and other crypto currencies are currently out of scope of AML/CTF. Bitbillpay doesn't accept fiat currencies. It's not a money transmitter. You can't use the service to get cash.
It would probably argued that under the Corporations Act 2001 as administered by ASIC you are probably offering a financial service here, and are therefore required to hold an Australian Financial Services License. Good luck!
IANAL but applying your implied criteria it seems that every online store should hold AFSL because they take money from consumers. A "financial product" has been clearly defined in CA.
Re: Show HN: Bitbillpay - Pay any PostBillPay biller in Australia with Bitcoin
#25For those outside Australia, you can pay most bills at the post office (Australia Post) or online via the post office's PostBillPay service. Basically, AusPost act as a middleman between the biller and the customer. But AusPost only accept Australian Dollar payments. So from my reading of it, Ryan's project takes a bitcoin payment from the customer, converts it into AUD, then connects to PostBillPay and pays the bill…
I imagine if it takes off, AusPost will implement pay-by-bitcoin in their own service
As someone with occasional interactions with AusPost's software group: That'll take a few decades - they'd be better off buying you.
Re: Show HN: Bitbillpay - Pay any PostBillPay biller in Australia with Bitcoin
#26Further to my response to a comment stating that this does not fall foul of AUSTRAC's requirements, I think it does break the law with respect to the Corporations Act's requirements for an Australian Financial Services License (AFSL)... http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/ASIC.NSF/byHeadline/Licensing "An Australian financial services (AFS) licence authorises licensees to: 1 provide financial product advice to clients; 2 dea…
I can't see how Bitbillpay is remotely a custodial or depository service. No dollar ever changes hands (I pay your bills with my credit card, and you pay me in Bitcoin). Australia Post also explicitly allows "third party bill payments" in their terms of service.
and then the only person who can do a charge-back if required is you...
Re: Show HN: Bitbillpay - Pay any PostBillPay biller in Australia with Bitcoin
#27Further to my response to a comment stating that this does not fall foul of AUSTRAC's requirements, I think it does break the law with respect to the Corporations Act's requirements for an Australian Financial Services License (AFSL)... http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/ASIC.NSF/byHeadline/Licensing "An Australian financial services (AFS) licence authorises licensees to: 1 provide financial product advice to clients; 2 dea…
I can't see how Bitbillpay is remotely a custodial or depository service. No dollar ever changes hands (I pay your bills with my credit card, and you pay me in Bitcoin). Australia Post also explicitly allows "third party bill payments" in their terms of service.
What if there is a delay between receiving the bitcoin to doing the payment, for example if the payment gateway is down?
Would that imply custodial or depository service?
Re: Show HN: Bitbillpay - Pay any PostBillPay biller in Australia with Bitcoin
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't see how Bitbillpay is remotely a custodial or depository service. No dollar ever changes hands (I pay your bills with my credit card, and you pay me in Bitcoin). Australia Post also explicitly allows "third party bill payments" in their terms of service.
What if there is a delay between receiving the bitcoin to doing the payment, for example if the payment gateway is down? Would that imply custodial or depository service?
Definition of "custodial or depository service": http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/...
There's nothing remotely similar. The Bitcoin payment is not an arrangement nor a financial product. It's not held in trust either.
Re: Show HN: Bitbillpay - Pay any PostBillPay biller in Australia with Bitcoin
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if there is a delay between receiving the bitcoin to doing the payment, for example if the payment gateway is down? Would that imply custodial or depository service?
Definition of "custodial or depository service": http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca2001172/... There's nothing remotely similar. The Bitcoin payment is not an arrangement nor a financial product. It's not held in trust either.
Thanks for the link.
I wouldn't want to rely on my interpretation of reading that Act to keep myself out of trouble! There are so many links that go to fairly unhelpful definitions such as 'when used in a provision outside Chapter 7, has the same meaning as it has in Chapter 7.'
So it's not a settlement facility etc, it seems exepmt from these if it's not considered a financial product?
Out of interest, do you know what a similar service that accepted AUD instead would be classified under?