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The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

nytimes.com

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Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#61

Post by enraged_camel »

thom wrote: post #18
cliveowen wrote: post #9

I can't fathom who thought these things were a good idea. I see people "smoking" these things everywhere: on the bus, on the train, at the effing university during classes! I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face. I can't believe people don't get this.

Yeah, I too despise the militant glee people derive from using them everywhere. I also hate the enormous numbers of tacky shops ('MyCiggy'... jeez) appearing to flog them, which seem single-handedly to be propping up the Guild of Bad Typographers.

"Militant glee" is such a great description. It's like they look at you in the eye and think, "that's right motherf*, I'm smoking in the building!"

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#62

Post by praxeologist »

300bps wrote: post #51
[deleted] wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Alex3917 said... Do you seriously believe that second hand propylene glycol vapor can pose any medical risk, either short term or long term? Strawman argument. Is Propylene Glycol the only ingredient in e-cigarettes? Are e-cigarettes regulated by a governmental agency to ensure that they only include listed ingredients? The answer to both these questions is, "no" and you in reality have no idea what ingredients the C…

In 2009, the FDA tested some ecigs from China and found traces of DEG. This was used to raise fear, yet the amount of DEG was within the FDA's own tolerances as "safe". You probably use myriad products from China which aren't highly scrutinized and aren't up in arms about the safety of those.

I have an ecig company and the ingredients in my liquid are 100% American sourced. I have never worked for a tobacco company. Ecigs helped me quit smoking and my motivation is to help people quit and improve their lives.

There is no reason to be concerned about secondhand vapor. This is a recent study for you to read: http://publichealth.drexel.edu/SiteData/docs/ms08/f903492642...

We can compare the secondhand exposure from ecigs to something like grilling a steak and grilling clearly has a greater risk to give you cancer.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#63

Post by praxeologist »

deskglass wrote: post #13
qwerta wrote: post #6

I do not understand why some people try to regulate this. My guess is that income from smoking-tax is shrinking. I never smoked cigarette in my life, but I tried e-cigs as a replacement for coffee. It works, no hassle with tea or coffee preparation, also it is probably healthier. But being labeled as a smoker puts me off.

"I tried e-cigs as a replacement for coffee...it is probably healthier." I'll grant that vaporization ameliorates the problems merely caused by smoke inhalation, but doesn't inhaling nicotine cause many health problems on its own? I'll also not aware of there being health issues that result from drinking a normal amount of tea or coffee.

"doesn't inhaling nicotine cause many health problems on its own?"

Not really. Nicotine seems to be about the same or maybe a few times as dangerous as caffeine, which is to say barely dangerous at all.

Most of the danger of cigarettes is burning the plant material. There is a study assigning cancer risk to the toxicants of tobacco smoke and there is a list of the top 50 or so chemicals of concern called the Hoffman analytes. Nicotine isn't on this list.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#64

Post by jimzvz »

scotth wrote: post #7
girvo wrote: post #2

I used a nicotine spray. I have done for a few months now, it works sublingually. I used it (and patches) to quit smoking, and I'm nearly there, only a few weeks left. What I find interesting though, is that while the spray does indeed get rid of the cravings, it (and the e-cigs I've used) is not the same "feeling" as smoking. This is possibly because of the lack of any MAOIs in the liquid itself. How many of those u…

I am an e-cig user, and an ex-smoker. There are five of us now in my group of friends. I love the things. It's become a fun hobby for us. We swap flavours, buy hardware to show off, and talk about our experience whenever we're together. Way more fun than smoking ever was. And, take this with a grain of salt (sample size of one), but I feel way better. No more coughing in the mornings, I take hills on my bike like a p…

>And, take this with a grain of salt (sample size of one), but I feel way better. No more coughing in the mornings, I take hills on my bike like a pro, and I'd swear I look healthier.

This is the same for me. A huge thing for me is that the tiredness that I feel when I smoke is nonexistent on ecigs.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#65

Post by dhughes »

pvnick wrote: post #32

E-Cigarettes are going to save millions of lives in the coming years. They're harmless, and, if you get a brand that feels like the real thing, easy to transition to. I hope the tobacco industry takes a huge financial hit from the sale of these things because they literally prevent people from dying. That being said, when I switched to e-cigarettes, it was very easy to switch back to regular cigarettes. That "narrow…

Safer according to what study? People just assume they are safer.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#66

Post by 300bps »

praxeologist wrote: post #62
300bps wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alex3917 said... Do you seriously believe that second hand propylene glycol vapor can pose any medical risk, either short term or long term? Strawman argument. Is Propylene Glycol the only ingredient in e-cigarettes? Are e-cigarettes regulated by a governmental agency to ensure that they only include listed ingredients? The answer to both these questions is, "no" and you in reality have no idea what ingredients the C…

In 2009, the FDA tested some ecigs from China and found traces of DEG. This was used to raise fear, yet the amount of DEG was within the FDA's own tolerances as "safe". You probably use myriad products from China which aren't highly scrutinized and aren't up in arms about the safety of those. I have an ecig company and the ingredients in my liquid are 100% American sourced. I have never worked for a tobacco company.…

I am not surprised at the level of spin coming from someone whose livelihood comes in part from e-cigarettes.

You dismiss the FDA study (summarized here http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/PublicHealthFocus/ucm173146.ht...) by saying it was "ecigs from China". But the study says it was two leading e-cig makers.

I have an ecig company and the ingredients in my liquid are 100% American sourced

That's kind of like saying, "My product is 100% natural." It might be accurate but ignores the fact that things like arsenic and bacteria and all kind of other harmful things are natural.

There is no reason to be concerned about secondhand vapor.

I'm going to trust the FDA over you.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#67

Post by praxeologist »

blankenship wrote: post #48
pvnick wrote: post #32

E-Cigarettes are going to save millions of lives in the coming years. They're harmless, and, if you get a brand that feels like the real thing, easy to transition to. I hope the tobacco industry takes a huge financial hit from the sale of these things because they literally prevent people from dying. That being said, when I switched to e-cigarettes, it was very easy to switch back to regular cigarettes. That "narrow…

But are they harmless? If they’re made with chemicals in an unregulated industrial process, it seems unlikely. Less harmful than ”analog” cigarettes, maybe—but completely harmless seems like an unlikely stretch.

Ecig advocates take a harm reduction approach, rather than the quit or die approach of anti-nicotine zealots. All evidence suggests that ecigs are vastly safer than burning tobacco.

Here is a recent survey of all available research. We could further extend this by looking at known cancer/cardiovascular risks of the small bits of concern with ecigs then compare to burning tobacco and you are talking about 1% danger comparatively: http://publichealth.drexel.edu/SiteData/docs/ms08/f903492642...

There is some movement for hte industry to regulate itself and suggest sensible rules, but if ecigs are "deemed" under the 2009 Tobacco act, it will potentially wipe out all innovation because of the rule that any new product be "substantially equivalent" to a product on the market before some arbitrary date in 2007 they set. There's all sorts of horrible rules being proposed which go beyond just making sure the liquid isn't contaminated.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#68

Post by bcx »

It is really interesting to look at this article through the lens of the PR agency/strategy that helped place it for NJOY.

1) Quotes from CEO

2) Little anecdote from Chief Marketing Officer

3) Big vision "Vaping" becomes common place.

4) Key differentiators: "building e-cigarettes that look, feel and perform like the real thing" (this is sprinkled throughout)

5) Celebrity endorsement, Big names: Peter Thiel, Brunno Mars

The rest (post first page) is a nice over view of the e-cigarette industry, and some challenges facing NJOY. I wonder how long they were working on a NYT article, of if this was something pretty easy for them to get, given interest around e-cigarettes.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#69

Post by jimzvz »

techsupporter wrote: post #25
cliveowen wrote: post #9

I can't fathom who thought these things were a good idea. I see people "smoking" these things everywhere: on the bus, on the train, at the effing university during classes! I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face. I can't believe people don't get this.

Exactly. I do not care what chemicals someone wants to put in his or her body but I care very strongly what chemicals and odors are around mine. The county where I live bans indoor e-cig and vaporizer consumption in the same places where cigarette smoking would be banned, such as inside office buildings, yet my coworkers simply do not care. This goes double for the bus or train stop where I have no choice; if I want…

I wish people would stop sneezing, coughing, stinking, wearing perfume etc in public but we can't have everything our own way when we interact with other people.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#70

Post by dionidium »

300bps wrote: post #51
[deleted] wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Alex3917 said... Do you seriously believe that second hand propylene glycol vapor can pose any medical risk, either short term or long term? Strawman argument. Is Propylene Glycol the only ingredient in e-cigarettes? Are e-cigarettes regulated by a governmental agency to ensure that they only include listed ingredients? The answer to both these questions is, "no" and you in reality have no idea what ingredients the C…

For decades a tobacco industry told us that cigarette smoking and second hand smoking were completely harmless.

First of all, the harmful effects of secondhand smoke have been wildly overstated. [0]

Beyond that, what gives you the right to put other people's health at risk?

This sort of hysterical nonsense has in recent years been engaged with far too much credit. I'm putting your health at risk when I drive a car, when I light a campfire, when I run my lawnmower, and so on and so on. Of course I have a right to put your health at risk in this way because a society in which I couldn't would be a very annoying place to live indeed.

[0] https://www.google.com/search?q=secondhand+smoke+overstated

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