The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale • Hacker News Board

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#51

Post by 300bps » Sun, Oct 27, 2013, 4:07 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #45

300bps wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely hit them on airplanes before with no problems. If you were flying on an airline based in the United States, you violated their rules. http://www.businessinsider.com/you-cant-smoke-e-cigarettes-i... Beyond that, what gives you the right to put other people's health at risk? You have either judged them safe or decided you don't care about the risks. You can't make that decision for other people and you're no…

[deleted]

Alex3917 said... Do you seriously believe that second hand propylene glycol vapor can pose any medical risk, either short term or long term?

Strawman argument. Is Propylene Glycol the only ingredient in e-cigarettes? Are e-cigarettes regulated by a governmental agency to ensure that they only include listed ingredients? The answer to both these questions is, "no" and you in reality have no idea what ingredients the Chinese manufacturers are putting into their vapors. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

worrying about second hand risks strikes me as being completely crazy.

Irrational name-calling. For decades a tobacco industry told us that cigarette smoking and second hand smoking were completely harmless. What credibility do they have to rest on? It's not even the slightest bit crazy to want fewer chemicals in the air you breathe especially when they are put there for no discernible benefit.

EDIT I see you deleted your response, https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Alex3917

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#52

Post by hershel » Sun, Oct 27, 2013, 4:13 PM UTC

Since people here talk about the difference of e-cigs and cigarettes , i.e. the lack of effects on MAOI, have anybody tried any juice that claims to have that effect on MAOI, for example "aroma ejuice" ?

How were the results for you ? And does anybody know about research or regulation of this types of ejuices ?

And since those same MAOI affecting compounds(probably beta carbolates) found in tobacco ,are found in brewed coffee, kinds of seasoning, grilled foods and other stuff, have anybody noticed a combination of vaping and some food more effective ?

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#53

Post by mst » Sun, Oct 27, 2013, 4:21 PM UTC

300bps wrote: post #28

anextio wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. Most reasonable people in the vaping community discourage that kind of behavior. At the end of the day, there will always be assholes. > The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty There are four ingredients in e-cigarette juice: propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and fl…

Because humans aren't rational machines and there are many things that cause people to take up habits that aren't healthy I get this, but usually there is some substantial benefit to the habit. To start smoking cigarettes today, you are well aware of the fact that it will: 1. Make you less healthy while you are alive 2. Will prematurely end your life 3. Will make you reviled by a large portion of the population 4. Wi…

You might find that asking the question without repeated use of the word "ridiculous" and without calling people "reviled" would make it more likely that they'd answer you.

Then again, I'm not really seeing any evidence that you want your mind to be changed, so perhaps a better approach would be for you to simply post "I don't understand smoking at all and I don't honestly want to" and skip the insults for that reason instead.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#54

Post by 300bps » Sun, Oct 27, 2013, 4:22 PM UTC

ahallock wrote: post #21

300bps wrote: post #4

I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. When you say something to them they invariably try to "educate" you on what an e-cigarette is and how it's different. The problem is that e-cigarettes have not been shown to be safe. From the article: Most public health officials seem to agree that the levels of toxins in e-cigarettes are far lower than those i…

> I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. Ad hominem. Plus, just because something resembles smoking does not mean you should conflate the two, "poisoning the well." > When you say something to them they invariably try to "educate" you on what an e-cigarette is and how it's different Condescending and derisive. > The FDA is collecting reports of adve…

Ad hominem

Criticizing someone's behavior is not an ad-hominem. You really don't seem to know what ad-hominem means at all. This should help you:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Condescending and derisive.

Ironically, it is condescending and derisive that they are trying to educate me about e-cigarettes.

I'll check it out, but from that intro you're probably seeking confirmation bias

Did you just read a Wikipedia article on logical fallacies and are trying to fit as many "big words" into your HN comments as you can?

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#55

Post by mst » Sun, Oct 27, 2013, 4:33 PM UTC

300bps wrote: post #36

rickdale wrote: post #10

I used to run a custom e-cigarette company. We sold it this summer. My take away was that the federal government eventually will get involved and start regulating the shipping of these items. Unfortunately the stuff people are getting now is mostly made in China and you can't be too certain of what the heck you are getting when you take a big inhale and just taste the apple flavoring or whatever. Who knows what chemi…

Definitely hit them on airplanes before with no problems. If you were flying on an airline based in the United States, you violated their rules. http://www.businessinsider.com/you-cant-smoke-e-cigarettes-i... Beyond that, what gives you the right to put other people's health at risk? You have either judged them safe or decided you don't care about the risks. You can't make that decision for other people and you're no…

> more susceptible to any kind of tobacco

That is, of course, assuming that the e-cig uses tobacco, for which I see absolutely no evidence.

Please at least stick to the ingredients actually present when attempting an attack.

Additionallym please bear in mind that saying "oh but we've no guarantee it was actually made with those ingredients" is pretty equivalent to "oh but we've no guarantee somebody's lipstick wasn't actually made with rat poision", so your 'strawman argument' claim down thread doesn't make any sense to me.

> I understand why my mother started smoking when she was 16 and then smoked a pack a day for the next 43 years until she died from cancer.

I fear that this statement elsethread - combined with your sneering tone anc crusader's mindset - indicates that you're not actually interested in discussing the matter clearly but rather in rationalising your hatred of the thing you blame for your mother's death. That would be a shame; under the thick layer of condescension I think you actually have some valid arguments, although it's a little difficult to tell for sure.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#56

Post by anextio » Sun, Oct 27, 2013, 4:51 PM UTC

300bps wrote: post #51

[deleted] wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Alex3917 said... Do you seriously believe that second hand propylene glycol vapor can pose any medical risk, either short term or long term? Strawman argument. Is Propylene Glycol the only ingredient in e-cigarettes? Are e-cigarettes regulated by a governmental agency to ensure that they only include listed ingredients? The answer to both these questions is, "no" and you in reality have no idea what ingredients the C…

> Are e-cigarettes regulated by a governmental agency to ensure that they only include listed ingredients?

No, but they should be. No one is arguing that quality control isn't important. The problem is that the debate is being marred by FUD that would seek to remove access to these devices for people who need them to quit cigarettes.

> you in reality have no idea what ingredients the Chinese manufacturers are putting into their vapors

Aside from the gas station disposable ones, most e-liquid purchased in the US is made by small local businesses who want to do right by their customers. I certainly would never buy e-liquid from a non reputable vendor, and certainly not an anonymous company in China.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#57

Post by ams6110 » Sun, Oct 27, 2013, 5:02 PM UTC

Smokers getting annoyed looks at a Stones concert??? My how times have changed. The last time I saw the Stones in concert the entire venue was so filled with cigarette (and I'm sure other) smoke that when the house lights came up at the end of the show the place looked like a Cheech and Chong scene.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#58

Post by 300bps » Sun, Oct 27, 2013, 5:03 PM UTC

mst wrote: post #55

300bps wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely hit them on airplanes before with no problems. If you were flying on an airline based in the United States, you violated their rules. http://www.businessinsider.com/you-cant-smoke-e-cigarettes-i... Beyond that, what gives you the right to put other people's health at risk? You have either judged them safe or decided you don't care about the risks. You can't make that decision for other people and you're no…

> more susceptible to any kind of tobacco That is, of course, assuming that the e-cig uses tobacco, for which I see absolutely no evidence. Please at least stick to the ingredients actually present when attempting an attack. Additionallym please bear in mind that saying "oh but we've no guarantee it was actually made with those ingredients" is pretty equivalent to "oh but we've no guarantee somebody's lipstick wasn't…

That is, of course, assuming that the e-cig uses tobacco, for which I see absolutely no evidence.

Here's some evidence for you to see:

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/PublicHealthFocus/ucm173146.ht...

Diethylene glycol was detected in one cartridge at approximately 1%. Diethylene glycol, an ingredient used in antifreeze, is toxic to humans.

Certain tobacco-specific nitrosamines which are human carcinogens were detected in half of the samples tested.

Tobacco-specific impurities suspected of being harmful to humans—anabasine, myosmine, and β-nicotyrine—were detected in a majority of the samples tested.

You appear to just be taking all the claims that these e-cigarette companies are reporting at face value. Just like people used to take what the tobacco companies said at face value. I won't fall for it.

Are e-cigarettes safe than regular cigarettes? Maybe? Probably? Are they safe though? I have no idea and neither do you or anyone else.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#59

Post by peterwiese » Sun, Oct 27, 2013, 5:04 PM UTC

300bps wrote: post #36

rickdale wrote: post #10

I used to run a custom e-cigarette company. We sold it this summer. My take away was that the federal government eventually will get involved and start regulating the shipping of these items. Unfortunately the stuff people are getting now is mostly made in China and you can't be too certain of what the heck you are getting when you take a big inhale and just taste the apple flavoring or whatever. Who knows what chemi…

Definitely hit them on airplanes before with no problems. If you were flying on an airline based in the United States, you violated their rules. http://www.businessinsider.com/you-cant-smoke-e-cigarettes-i... Beyond that, what gives you the right to put other people's health at risk? You have either judged them safe or decided you don't care about the risks. You can't make that decision for other people and you're no…

faggot

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#60

Post by nilkn » Sun, Oct 27, 2013, 5:06 PM UTC

tluyben2 wrote: post #11

A lot of smokers I know switched to these things. They 'smoke' (is that the proper word with such an e-cig?) far more than they did before. Some of them use them every second they have nothing todo with one of their hands, which basically means they're puffing most of their waking day. I hope for them these things don't turn out to be as bad as/worse than normal cigs...

My dad went through the same process. He smoked his e-cigarette essentially non-stop, all day long, everywhere he went.

He eventually ditched it and went back to real cigarettes, though he smokes drastically fewer per day now than he used to. Unfortunately, though, I expect his habit to be back in full swing in the next few years.