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The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

nytimes.com

21–30 of 170 posts

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#21
post #4

I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. When you say something to them they invariably try to "educate" you on what an e-cigarette is and how it's different. The problem is that e-cigarettes have not been shown to be safe. From the article: Most public health officials seem to agree that the levels of toxins in e-cigarettes are far lower than those i…

> I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking.

Ad hominem. Plus, just because something resembles smoking does not mean you should conflate the two, "poisoning the well."

> When you say something to them they invariably try to "educate" you on what an e-cigarette is and how it's different

Condescending and derisive.

> The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty

Finally we get to some actual evidence. I'll check it out, but from that intro you're probably seeking confirmation bias. Did you find any opposing data?

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#22

A lot of smokers I know switched to these things. They 'smoke' (is that the proper word with such an e-cig?) far more than they did before. Some of them use them every second they have nothing todo with one of their hands, which basically means they're puffing most of their waking day. I hope for them these things don't turn out to be as bad as/worse than normal cigs...

As someone who switched to an e-cigarette, I might be able to answer this for you.

The first thing is that the level and effect of nicotine that is absorbed though vapor is a lot less than a regular cigarette. The reason for this is twofold: firstly, the lungs/mouth/throat seem to simply not pick up as much as in a cigarette, and secondly, cigarette smoke also contains MAOIs, which increase the sensitivity of the brain to nicotine's effects.

In addition, users can choose the level of nicotine that they use. Most e-cig users who are regular smokers tend to start at around 18mg/ml. When I first started, I was using this liquid in a 1.6ml tank. One tank worked out to about 1 pack of cigarettes worth of nicotine, and I got through about a tank a day: the same amount that I used to smoke in cigarettes, except spread out through a longer period of time.

Most vapers will puff way differently to cigarette users. We take one or two puffs at a time and then wait, while a cigarette user will smoke the whole thing quickly in one go.

Nicotine has been shown[1] to increase creativity in the brain, and I know from my own experience that I find it to be great while working. Most of my 'House' moments when tackling difficult coding problems have occurred on the curb with a cigarette in my mouth, and now I lean back at my desk and have a few puffs of fine-tasting menthol e-liquid.

[1] http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-08/uoc--bcw08150...

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#23
post #17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. Most reasonable people in the vaping community discourage that kind of behavior. At the end of the day, there will always be assholes. > The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty There are four ingredients in e-cigarette juice: propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and fl…

> There are four ingredients in e-cigarette juice: propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and flavoring. There should be four ingredients. God only knows what actually goes into the lower quality versions. > Regulations that come in should be about quality of product, Yes.

> There should be four ingredients. God only knows what actually goes into the lower quality versions.

Then we're in agreement. I don't know of anyone (besides the usual anarcho-capitalists) who thinks that low quality ingredients should be used in any consumed product.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#24

I can't fathom who thought these things were a good idea. I see people "smoking" these things everywhere: on the bus, on the train, at the effing university during classes! I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face. I can't believe people don't get this.

People tap-tap-tapping at their fucking phones gets the same reaction from me. Of course it's irrational for me to feel this way, so I've learned to ignore it.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#25

I can't fathom who thought these things were a good idea. I see people "smoking" these things everywhere: on the bus, on the train, at the effing university during classes! I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face. I can't believe people don't get this.

Exactly. I do not care what chemicals someone wants to put in his or her body but I care very strongly what chemicals and odors are around mine. The county where I live bans indoor e-cig and vaporizer consumption in the same places where cigarette smoking would be banned, such as inside office buildings, yet my coworkers simply do not care. This goes double for the bus or train stop where I have no choice; if I want or need to take that bus/train, I must stand _right_ _freaking_ _there_. When a couple of "vapers" (that's honestly the name I've heard people at work call themselves when they are partaking) are there and combined with another one to three people smoking "real" cigarettes, it gets quite hazy and uncomfortable.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#26

I can't fathom who thought these things were a good idea. I see people "smoking" these things everywhere: on the bus, on the train, at the effing university during classes! I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face. I can't believe people don't get this.

> I can't fathom who thought these things were a good idea.

The millions of people who have quit tobacco because of them, for one example.

> I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face.

On behalf of the decent people in the vaping community, I'm sorry that you have to put up with people like that. There's a big movement in the community at the moment to severely discourage people from using them in inappropriate places like restaurants or around people who are disturbed by it.

However, I think that this problem can be solved by awareness raising alone. It's too risky for the sake of public health to ban them in certain places or outright.

If you come across someone doing this and you don't like it, tell them that propylene glycol vapor irritates you and ask them to avoid making clouds. Holding in the vapor for more than 5 seconds usually means that none at all will be expelled when they exhale. This is what I, and many others, do if we ever vape on public transport etc., which I try to avoid anyway.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#27
post #3
post #2

I used a nicotine spray. I have done for a few months now, it works sublingually. I used it (and patches) to quit smoking, and I'm nearly there, only a few weeks left. What I find interesting though, is that while the spray does indeed get rid of the cravings, it (and the e-cigs I've used) is not the same "feeling" as smoking. This is possibly because of the lack of any MAOIs in the liquid itself. How many of those u…

Have you read the book Allen Carr's easy way to quit smoking? It really works.

It sort of worked for me - after reading it I gave up smoking day-to-day - just like that. It was amazing.

But I still smoked when I went to the pub and had a drink - I guess it's a deeper link between them. To stop that I went for hypnosis.

I still want cigarettes every now and then, but I'm not actually tempted to have one any more.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#28
post #14
post #4

I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. When you say something to them they invariably try to "educate" you on what an e-cigarette is and how it's different. The problem is that e-cigarettes have not been shown to be safe. From the article: Most public health officials seem to agree that the levels of toxins in e-cigarettes are far lower than those i…

> I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. Most reasonable people in the vaping community discourage that kind of behavior. At the end of the day, there will always be assholes. > The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty There are four ingredients in e-cigarette juice: propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and fl…

Because humans aren't rational machines and there are many things that cause people to take up habits that aren't healthy

I get this, but usually there is some substantial benefit to the habit.

To start smoking cigarettes today, you are well aware of the fact that it will:

1. Make you less healthy while you are alive

2. Will prematurely end your life

3. Will make you reviled by a large portion of the population

4. Will cost you a ridiculous amount of money

5. Will cost you a tremendous amount of time while you seek out cigarettes and smoke them

... there are many more negatives.

What possible positives are there that outweigh these negatives?

Nicotine is no more addictive or harmful to a person in a normal dose than caffeine, and its effects are similar also.

This is just so incredibly ridiculous. I've never smoked a cigarette but I have been addicted to caffeine multiple times in my life. I've gone "cold turkey" several times and the only effect was a slight headache that was off and on for a week. I think it's actually pretty easy to quit caffeine but from what I hear, it's nearly impossible to quit smoking cigarettes.

And if the effects of caffeine are similar to the effects of nicotine why not just use caffeine? It seems to have few of the negatives and all the positives (including the social impact of smoking which can be transferred to the social impact of getting coffee).

I just don't get smoking at all. I don't see any benefits to it in a vein similar to I don't see a benefit of smacking myself in the head with a hammer. It's hard to explain away such things with, "Yeah, people aren't rational" because you don't see many people smacking themselves in the head with a hammer.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#29

A lot of smokers I know switched to these things. They 'smoke' (is that the proper word with such an e-cig?) far more than they did before. Some of them use them every second they have nothing todo with one of their hands, which basically means they're puffing most of their waking day. I hope for them these things don't turn out to be as bad as/worse than normal cigs...

I think the verb is 'vape'.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#30
post #22

A lot of smokers I know switched to these things. They 'smoke' (is that the proper word with such an e-cig?) far more than they did before. Some of them use them every second they have nothing todo with one of their hands, which basically means they're puffing most of their waking day. I hope for them these things don't turn out to be as bad as/worse than normal cigs...

As someone who switched to an e-cigarette, I might be able to answer this for you. The first thing is that the level and effect of nicotine that is absorbed though vapor is a lot less than a regular cigarette. The reason for this is twofold: firstly, the lungs/mouth/throat seem to simply not pick up as much as in a cigarette, and secondly, cigarette smoke also contains MAOIs, which increase the sensitivity of the bra…

I don't disagree with your sentiment at all, but have you thought about the "curb" being the primary factor behind the increased creativity? Is leaning back and puffing from a vape as effective for you?
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