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My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work done

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Re: My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work done

#271

Post by betterunix »

_random_ wrote: post #231
trentmb wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, why don't I have a paper published in every possible field of academic inquiry? Seriously, just because you had too much free time doesn't mean I do. I appreciate your nonsensical condescension.

Agreed, it's always about three components: being healthy, being social and doing your main job/studies. If you suddenly have a lot of free time, then probably one of those three is missing.

Funny, I find that I like having a bit of time here and there to think -- not running around "being social," not spending time on assigned work. I wind up doing those three things better after some time to sort things out in my head.

Of course, I could be doing things wrong. Who wouldn't want to have every waking hour consumed by other people?

Re: My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work done

#272

Post by betterunix »

frigg wrote: post #214
eddiedunn wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. That's just your own very subjective opinion of UI preferences. I personally really don't care at all for the ridiculous glassy look of Aero in Windows 7; it's ugly to me. I think the biggest problem with Linux is that many people plainly prefer what they're used to. Additionally, if you're a so called Windows "power user" you have vested more knowledge in the Windows ecosystem - specialized knowledge that…

>Bullshit. That's just your own very subjective opinion of UI preferences. >I personally [...] You're rather rude there. I don't agree with what you said and I can say the same thing about your statement. I know plenty of people my age with Linux experience that don't use it as their primary OS precisely because of the UI. And no, they don't want to waste time on config files with a WM, they did that when they were 1…

The Windows 8 UI is the most annoying thing I have ever dealt with -- and I am not alone in making that statement, even people I know who frequently use Windows have said so. Microsoft took a UI designed for touchscreens and tried to make it work on desktops and laptops; it is not even that great of a touchscreen UI.

I find it ironic that you talk about wasting time on config files. My experience in Windows is that doing anything beyond the 10 tasks Microsoft determined to be common results in hours of clicking through menus, configuration dialogs, and in some cases dealing with the registry editor. Trying to troubleshoot a problem is a nightmare. Trying to set up something unusual is beyond a nightmare.

Re: My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work done

#273

Post by tehwalrus »

squid_ca wrote: post #267
cstross wrote: post #246

Microsoft's desktop supremacy hasn't been down to "it's got a nice, easy to use interface" for at least 20 years. Rather, Microsoft is (or was, in the pre-post-PC world) everywhere because of (a) licensing stitch-ups with hardware vendors and (b) network externalities: get into Corporate IT departments with Office, then people will want (or need) to use the same OS at home, and then you can strong-arm hardware vendor…

Serious question, since you have the stats: have people replaced 90% of their desktop and laptop usage with other computing devices, or do they now use computing devices generally 10x more than they used to? That is, just because we have smart phones etc, do we really use "computers" less than we used to? I doubt it, since I don't think tablets have replaced computers at work to that degree.

I agree, I think cstross is extrapolating from sales, which (as per recent discussion[1]) is not a reasonable assumption to make.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6606056

Re: My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work done

#274

Post by xradionut »

nmridul wrote: post #3

The same experience here. My parents also use Ubuntu now (firefox, Libre office). The main issue with Linux is, some one needs to install and setup everything for them. Finding and installing that missing wifi driver is not something that they can do. Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you. Hope pre-installed ubuntu systems get common.

"Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install everything for you."

LOL! I recent had to reinstall Windows 7 on a machine that was shipped with it. The manufacturers recovery disk didn't have the drivers for system. It took a couple of hours jumping through hoops to get the system up, then a couple of more hours to wait for Windows Update.

I had Linux Mint installed in less than one third the time the time with some minor issues with the wireless configuration.

Re: My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work done

#275

Post by bnolsen »

eru wrote: post #129
mkmkmmmmm wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must be getting used to it; I tried to use Word recently and ended up so frustrated that I almost switched to writing a layout script and making a pdf via Ruby. But other people use Word just fine so it must not be as shit as I think it is.

(La)TeX is a half-decent language to write layout scripts in. That's mostly because of the good libraries available. (The language itself sucks a bit. It was never really meant for general computation, and it shows.)

lyx makes does a good job wrapping latex for casual use.

Re: My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work done

#276

Post by bnolsen »

itsboring wrote: post #212
ilyanep wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, and (to contradict your point a little bit) I pretty much refuse to do development tasks on Windows because it's the one remaining OS on which I find it impossible to be productive. Have you ever tried working in a Windows command line compared to a UNIX terminal? Yes, I can install cygwin, but I really feel like I shouldn't have to.

I tried using cygwin for a while too, but I finally gave up and tossed windows out the...uh...window. The cygwin folks have made a heroic effort, but it still feels like putting lipstick on a pig.

start up SSH server in cygwin and life gets much better.

Re: My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work done

#277

Post by nicolethenerd »

spencera wrote: post #5

Just have to say, Apple has been working the usability angle a lot longer than Ubuntu and it doesn't seem to be upsetting Microsoft too much. Of course, this comes from a person who has never been able to rationalize spending his own money on a Mac.

Exactly - Apple products are expensive - despite their usability, not all users are willing to pay a premium for that. On the other hand, if there was a highly-usable free alternative to Windows (which Linux seems like it's well on its way to becoming), that might be a different story. Of course, being free, Linux doesn't have the marketing budget that Apple does - so I don't see it stealing too much of Microsoft's market share any time soon.

(And then of course there's the fact that Windows machines are actually subsidized by Microsoft, making Windows effectively cheaper than free. Plus all the other factors that make folks Windows users - the proprietary software, use in schools, etc.)

Re: My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work done

#278

Post by keithpeter »

wting wrote: post #21

Both my parents are 60+. My mom is perfectly fine using Ubuntu on my old x61 for email, browsing, and YouTube. To be fair she could probably replace it with a tablet if it weren't for the fact that she visits a lot of flash sites (Chinese TV streaming sites). Likewise my dad is on another Ubuntu machine at home. His work needs access to some software / printers that can't be run via Wine so he's stuck with Windows th…

Your mother wants access to her content. Same with my partner Ruth. She is happily using CentOS (with the Stella repositories for multimedia) on an X61s with Ultrabase for surfing and watching videos and DVDs. It gets the job done, and I had the Thinkpad around anyway when her iBook stopped working.

Does your brother need access to specialised software (e.g. having to hand in College/University work in some Windows specific system or using business applications)?

Re: My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work done

#279

Post by keithpeter »

girvo wrote: post #173
wting wrote: post #21

Both my parents are 60+. My mom is perfectly fine using Ubuntu on my old x61 for email, browsing, and YouTube. To be fair she could probably replace it with a tablet if it weren't for the fact that she visits a lot of flash sites (Chinese TV streaming sites). Likewise my dad is on another Ubuntu machine at home. His work needs access to some software / printers that can't be run via Wine so he's stuck with Windows th…

> I tried to convert my 25 year old brother as well, but he switched back to Windows after a month. Despite being the youngest, he hated learning a new system and preferred Windows. I've found this myself. My Grandfather loves Windows 8, my mother absolutely hates it. My Grandfather loves his new Android phone, my mum hates Android and refuses to use anything other than her iPhone. Younger people may be more "tech-sa…

Perhaps your sample of younger people are just short of time and have the applications they want working in the way they want?

In defence of 'younger people' generally I hand my X60 Thinkpad running Debian Wheezy with the default Gnome 3 desktop around sometimes in class. It does not take them long to work out how to access Firefox and a maths video on YouTube after suggesting they press the windows key. They generally find the trackpoint harder to deal with than the actual interface so I take a USB mouse in with me.

Re: My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work done

#280

Post by mdisraeli »

sseveran wrote: post #171
mkmkmmmmm wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I never got about Windows and especially Windows devs. How can you get anything done with all that clicking and no unix tools?

PowerShell

Powershell, Powershell, Powershell! Seriously, people, if you have to use a windows system, put some time into learning Powershell.

* Most simple grep and sed commands are entirely do-able. Bit more verbose syntax, but that comes with a hell of a lot of easy-to-access power

* It's all about objects, rather than plain text. This can often be a pain, but Import-Csv and Export-Csv are utter LOVE. Adding additional new properties could be easier, but it is an option and can be used to great effect

* It's basically .Net for the command line, and you can get to all the power locked away in the .Net libraries

* No installation required on modern windows machines. Assuming your network admins are not overly restrictive, you get a proper shell without having to install cygwin

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