Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Confessions of a Drone Warrior

gq.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 172 posts

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#81

Post by maxerickson »

riggins wrote: post #46
jread wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that the JTAC is usually an enlisted soldier embedded with a ground unit. He is highly trained on ROE and positive ID, and generally has a good first hand perspective on what is happening on the ground. He is responsible for protecting the lives of the unit he is embedded with, and air assets are tasked to support him. From my experience, these are not warmongers, just guys doing their jobs, trying to pr…

I understand that. And this isn't about me trashing the operator. But I also have a logical mind and I can't avoid the implication that if his JTAC was a bad apple, he'd do what the JTAC said.

People with doubts about the process are going to tend to self select out of it. If they are sitting there with ambivalence about each release, at some point they aren't going to want to face it again.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#82

Post by grey-area »

gbags wrote: post #78
hooande wrote: post #48

Drones are just like any other tools of war. The fact that the combatant is sitting very far away from the battle doesn't make the killing any less real, the stakes any lower or the human cost to the operator any cheaper. War is hell because of the horrible decisions that have to be made. Distance doesn't make it any easier. Drones don't kill innocent non-combatants, people do. There are many cases of civilians being…

> The blame for the cost of war doesn't go to to the weapons or the people who pull the triggers. We're all responsible for the things done in our names, This is absolute and complete horseshit. I protest against war. I vote against war. I campaign for candidates who oppose war. I refuse to work for companies that profit from war. War happens anyway. A soldier surveys his opportunities and realizes he can put money i…

You got a downvote from me for this post - personal attacks are not helpful, and speculation about someone being human filth is really not called for, unless you don't believe in having an army at all? Even if you don't I think you should tone down your hatred. You've also distorted the OP in your rush to condemn them. For example:

We're all responsible for the things done in our names,

Only a completely insane person would claim that the soldier and I are equally culpable.

The first statement does not imply the second.

We are all, to a greater or lesser degree, responsible for the actions of our government, and for the wars it prosecutes. You may feel powerless in your opposition to war, but if you feel outraged by that, spare some thought for those half a world away who have had their grandmother or other members of their family killed by a drone.

[EDIT - I see you've removed the reference to human filth now]

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#83

Post by grey-area »

jackpirate wrote: post #61
hooande wrote: post #48

Drones are just like any other tools of war. The fact that the combatant is sitting very far away from the battle doesn't make the killing any less real, the stakes any lower or the human cost to the operator any cheaper. War is hell because of the horrible decisions that have to be made. Distance doesn't make it any easier. Drones don't kill innocent non-combatants, people do. There are many cases of civilians being…

The blame for the cost of war doesn't go to to ... the people who pull the triggers. Yes, it most certainly does. I used to be a submarine officer in the Navy, but I was discharged 2 years ago as a conscientious objector [1]. I left because I felt I had a moral responsibility to do so. If your conscience says "don't kill someone," then you shouldn't kill them. You can't absolve yourself of responsibility just because…

Perhaps a better statement would be - The blame for the cost of war doesn't go entirely to the people who pull the triggers?

Surely those who order the killing, those who pay for it, and those who permit it by voting for the war, bear some of the responsibility?

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#84

Post by gbags »

grey-area wrote: post #82
gbags wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The blame for the cost of war doesn't go to to the weapons or the people who pull the triggers. We're all responsible for the things done in our names, This is absolute and complete horseshit. I protest against war. I vote against war. I campaign for candidates who oppose war. I refuse to work for companies that profit from war. War happens anyway. A soldier surveys his opportunities and realizes he can put money i…

You got a downvote from me for this post - personal attacks are not helpful, and speculation about someone being human filth is really not called for, unless you don't believe in having an army at all? Even if you don't I think you should tone down your hatred. You've also distorted the OP in your rush to condemn them. For example: We're all responsible for the things done in our names, Only a completely insane perso…

The blame for the cost of war doesn't go to to the weapons or the people who pull the triggers.

OP explicitly exempts people who voluntarily agree to fight wars for profit from blame for the wars. That is insane.

If you want to down vote me because I can't pretend to respect that sort of bullshit, that's fine; I hope it made you feel powerful to click a button and tell me off.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#85

Post by gbags »

grey-area wrote: post #83
jackpirate wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blame for the cost of war doesn't go to to ... the people who pull the triggers. Yes, it most certainly does. I used to be a submarine officer in the Navy, but I was discharged 2 years ago as a conscientious objector [1]. I left because I felt I had a moral responsibility to do so. If your conscience says "don't kill someone," then you shouldn't kill them. You can't absolve yourself of responsibility just because…

Perhaps a better statement would be - The blame for the cost of war doesn't go entirely to the people who pull the triggers? Surely those who order the killing, those who pay for it, and those who permit it by voting for the war, bear some of the responsibility?

That would be a sane statement.

But what the OP said, and what you "wholeheartedly agreed" with was absolute and complete rubbish.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#86

Post by grey-area »

gbags wrote: post #84
grey-area wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got a downvote from me for this post - personal attacks are not helpful, and speculation about someone being human filth is really not called for, unless you don't believe in having an army at all? Even if you don't I think you should tone down your hatred. You've also distorted the OP in your rush to condemn them. For example: We're all responsible for the things done in our names, Only a completely insane perso…

The blame for the cost of war doesn't go to to the weapons or the people who pull the triggers. OP explicitly exempts people who voluntarily agree to fight wars for profit from blame for the wars. That is insane. If you want to down vote me because I can't pretend to respect that sort of bullshit, that's fine; I hope it made you feel powerful to click a button and tell me off.

I felt your personal attack (now deleted in a stealth edit) stepped over the line. It's IMO fine to disagree and call viewpoints bullshit, but I don't think you should insult or speculate on the character and profession of other posters. Felt you deserved a response on it, and as to power trips over stupid points on a website - please!

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#87

Post by timsally »

saljam wrote: post #36
rayiner wrote: post #27

This is the future of warfare and it's a good thing. Way better than back when you would firebomb an industrial city or lob cruise missiles at poorly defined targets. No boots on the ground means none of our people at risk and drones are much more precise than bombs. The reactions in this thread demonstrate the classic uneasiness with killing a few people while being okay with killing lots of people. The people compl…

It's not a good thing. Only a handful of nations are capable of producing weaponized drones, and that's not likely to change anytime soon. This is very susceptible to abuse. The numbers here show my point exactly: http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/category/projects/drone...

> It's not a good thing. Only a handful of nations are capable of producing weaponized drones

A nation spends money on defense for precisely this reason, to produce an asymmetry in that's nation's capabilities compared to all others. It's an explicit design goal! Your argument can be applied to all new technology being developed for defense in all countries-- consequently, I don't think you'll find much support for this line of argument.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#88

Post by gbags »

grey-area wrote: post #86
gbags wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blame for the cost of war doesn't go to to the weapons or the people who pull the triggers. OP explicitly exempts people who voluntarily agree to fight wars for profit from blame for the wars. That is insane. If you want to down vote me because I can't pretend to respect that sort of bullshit, that's fine; I hope it made you feel powerful to click a button and tell me off.

I felt your personal attack (now deleted in a stealth edit) stepped over the line. It's IMO fine to disagree and call viewpoints bullshit, but I don't think you should insult or speculate on the character and profession of other posters. Felt you deserved a response on it, and as to power trips over stupid points on a website - please!

"stealth edit"

Oh go fuck yourself. I saw an utterly garbage argument, I responded quickly, then I edited it because my first draft had unhelpful content. "stealth edit" implies a perniciousness that simply wasn't present.

> I don't think you should insult or speculate on the character and profession of other posters

And I think that if somebody says that soldiers have no blame for war, that they're idiots, and it's ludicrous to pretend respect for them.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#89

Post by D9u » 

    military drones, a projection of American power that won’t risk American lives.
Yet burning some Muslim books places Americans at risk?

I'd say that the collateral damage caused by "Signature Strikes" is as an effective terrorist recruiting agent as is burning some old religious books.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#90

Post by phaus »

jackpirate wrote: post #61
hooande wrote: post #48

Drones are just like any other tools of war. The fact that the combatant is sitting very far away from the battle doesn't make the killing any less real, the stakes any lower or the human cost to the operator any cheaper. War is hell because of the horrible decisions that have to be made. Distance doesn't make it any easier. Drones don't kill innocent non-combatants, people do. There are many cases of civilians being…

The blame for the cost of war doesn't go to to ... the people who pull the triggers. Yes, it most certainly does. I used to be a submarine officer in the Navy, but I was discharged 2 years ago as a conscientious objector [1]. I left because I felt I had a moral responsibility to do so. If your conscience says "don't kill someone," then you shouldn't kill them. You can't absolve yourself of responsibility just because…

You must be exceptionally lucky. In most cases they will ruin your life before they give you conscientious objector status.
Post reply on HN