Start with a Problem, Not an Idea • Hacker News Board

Re: Start with a Problem, Not an Idea

#31

Post by ahoyhere » Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 1:45 PM UTC

wlievens wrote: post #24

axod wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why this is a good example. Coke with corn syrup is far cheaper to produce, but tastes really bad. Coke with real sugar costs more to produce, and tastes better. Care to enlighten?

The article I read about it gave me the impression that the difference in taste was very minor. I rarely drink Coke and I've never tasted both in comparison, so I could very well be wrong. Forgive me my ignorance.

You're forgiven! (Plus... a packaged food product from Mexico being super-premium? Interesting idea.)

For reference, here is the deliciousness Coke spectrum, from best to worst:

YUMMY...

Coke with real sugar in a glass bottle

Coke with real sugar in a can

Coke with real sugar in a plastic bottle

Coke with HFCS (yum!) in a can or glass bottle (makes no diff)

Coke with HFCS in plastic

...GROSS

For the record, Dr Pepper with real sugar is even more amazing than Coke with real sugar. And you can't apparently make Mtn Dew with real sugar because it'd be so saturated it wouldn't stay in a solution. Rock on!

Yet another reason to move to Canada and/or Europe.

Re: Start with a Problem, Not an Idea

#32

Post by ahoyhere » Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 1:47 PM UTC

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #21

patio11 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, if smart people can be convinced to ignore the practically inexhaustible and freely available supply of water in every building in most first world countries, then I think the de-commoditization of water was an astounding success. (I mention this because it is intellectually interesting to me, not because I hold contempt in my heart for people who buy bottled water, by the way.) Incidentally: HN does…

I think this falls flat as well. Many people have tap water at home that is a) hard and/or b) doesn't taste very good. You can tell the difference.

Yes - and I think that the number of people who buy bottled water exclusively for home drinking are vastly outnumbered by all of us who buy it when we're out because it's convenient and not full of HFCS/sugar/evil.

Re: Start with a Problem, Not an Idea

#33

Post by jyothi » Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 1:53 PM UTC

eterno wrote: post #23

Couldnt DISAGREE more. The advice is extremely banal bordering on common sense but most importantly discounts the fact that a lot of startups are built not to solve any existing problem but perhaps to just better an existing solution. The semantics are crucial here, because solving a problem almost implies that it is something a customer 'understands' to be a problem and not just satisfed with the status quo - that i…

I think its more of a change in the thought process. A lot of times identifying the problem you are trying to solve (lets say u did start thinking of that as an idea) - provides you the solutions for the market, positioning, pricing and more. So the author's point is if you don't have a real problem you are solving - you are probably not headed anywhere. Eventually even if u call it an idea - you still got to figure out the problem to tell the user why to adopt it.

The way I see it the take away is more about the way you think about your product than about where or how you started or what terminology you give.

And also as edw519 there would be very few outliers and of course they are a gamble. Every invention is. As you mention google and twitter you should also note that figuring out how to build a business out of these ideas is hard. All search engines faced the problem - advertising made it a huge success but did come very late. Twitter for a long time now has been on the same Q.

So it does make sense to think of your product as an idea to create something ground breaking but for most part, figuring out the problem you solve simplifies a lot.

Re: Start with a Problem, Not an Idea

#34

Post by rgoddard » Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 2:23 PM UTC

eterno wrote: post #23

Couldnt DISAGREE more. The advice is extremely banal bordering on common sense but most importantly discounts the fact that a lot of startups are built not to solve any existing problem but perhaps to just better an existing solution. The semantics are crucial here, because solving a problem almost implies that it is something a customer 'understands' to be a problem and not just satisfed with the status quo - that i…

But all of the examples you gave solve problems. With Amazon's kindle and associated service, they helped solved problems related to distribution of books, storage of large collections and portability. After having just packed up and moved my book collection, I can see real value in having something like the Kindle.

The iPod solved the problem of poor user interfaces and managing your music collection, and it did this better then any other current mp3 player on the market.

The main point of the article is to make something because it is of actual use and not just because it seems like a good idea. He never says only confine yourself to well defined problems, and he explicitly says to consider making something which is better then any of the existing solutions.

Your own idiosyncratic views of the status quo can allow you to see the situation in a different light and how things can be better. You may be the only one who thinks this way, and others will only understand that there was a problem only after seeing your solution. But that does not mean that the problem did not exist or that a better solution did not exist.

Re: Start with a Problem, Not an Idea

#35

Post by pchristensen » Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 2:31 PM UTC

Somebody has been plagiarizing pg: http://www.paulgraham.com/ideas.html

OP: "Fix something that’s broken. In business, it seems to me that the traditional banking business models are broken or at least no longer fit the purpose. On the other end of the spectrum, Internet dating sites don’t seem to work. They have millions of users, so they must be promising something people want. And yet they work horribly. Just ask anyone who uses them."

to pg: "One way to make something people want is to look at stuff people use now that's broken. Dating sites are a prime example. They have millions of users, so they must be promising something people want. And yet they work horribly. Just ask anyone who uses them. "

Or "Take a luxury and make it a commodity. People must want something if they pay a lot for it. It is a very rare product that can't be made dramatically cheaper if you try. When you make something dramatically cheaper, you sell more, and people start to use it in different ways. For example, once cell phones were so cheap that most people had one, people started using them as cameras and Internet devices."

to pg's : "Another classic way to make something people want is to take a luxury and make it into a commmodity. People must want something if they pay a lot for it. And it is a very rare product that can't be made dramatically cheaper if you try.

This was Henry Ford's plan. He made cars, which had been a luxury item, into a commodity. But the idea is much older than Henry Ford."

Re: Start with a Problem, Not an Idea

#36

Post by ori_b » Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 2:40 PM UTC

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #21

patio11 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, if smart people can be convinced to ignore the practically inexhaustible and freely available supply of water in every building in most first world countries, then I think the de-commoditization of water was an astounding success. (I mention this because it is intellectually interesting to me, not because I hold contempt in my heart for people who buy bottled water, by the way.) Incidentally: HN does…

I think this falls flat as well. Many people have tap water at home that is a) hard and/or b) doesn't taste very good. You can tell the difference.

You can also buy a water filter, and get better tasting water extremely cheaply when compared to bottles.

Re: Start with a Problem, Not an Idea

#37

Post by gnaritas » Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 2:46 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #30

iends wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last little blurb is off the mark: Mp3 players existed long before the iPod, but they had poor usability and no centralized store to legally purchase music. Bookstores existed long before amazon, but their inventory was limited. Blogging existed long before twitter, but it was a bit overkill to use existing solutions for micro-blogging.

Yes, but everyone was happy with the status quo of MP3 players at the time. Nobody wanted the iPod. Everybody said it would fail. And certainly no one was asking for a centralized music store. Pfff! I don't really agree with OC on other points, but the iPod really didn't scratch an itch. It changed the game by creating something new, not something that "solved a problem." To say the iPod solved a problem is pure hind…

> Yes, but everyone was happy with the status quo of MP3 players at the time

No they weren't, most people couldn't figure them out.

> To say the iPod solved a problem is pure hindsight.

No it isn't, the iPod brought it to the masses by making it simple enough for everyone to use.

Re: Start with a Problem, Not an Idea

#38

Post by Ammar » Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 2:50 PM UTC

Not always true, for example twitter didn't solve a new problem. People could communicate before just fine; it just provided another method to stay connected.

Re: Start with a Problem, Not an Idea

#39

Post by lacker » Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 2:52 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #30

iends wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last little blurb is off the mark: Mp3 players existed long before the iPod, but they had poor usability and no centralized store to legally purchase music. Bookstores existed long before amazon, but their inventory was limited. Blogging existed long before twitter, but it was a bit overkill to use existing solutions for micro-blogging.

Yes, but everyone was happy with the status quo of MP3 players at the time. Nobody wanted the iPod. Everybody said it would fail. And certainly no one was asking for a centralized music store. Pfff! I don't really agree with OC on other points, but the iPod really didn't scratch an itch. It changed the game by creating something new, not something that "solved a problem." To say the iPod solved a problem is pure hind…

A lot of people weren't happy with MP3 players at the time. It's not like they were extremely popular before the iPod. Specifically, before the iPod there was no MP3 player that could both fit in your pocket and hold your whole music collection.

Re: Start with a Problem, Not an Idea

#40

Post by silentOpen » Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 2:59 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #30

iends wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last little blurb is off the mark: Mp3 players existed long before the iPod, but they had poor usability and no centralized store to legally purchase music. Bookstores existed long before amazon, but their inventory was limited. Blogging existed long before twitter, but it was a bit overkill to use existing solutions for micro-blogging.

Yes, but everyone was happy with the status quo of MP3 players at the time. Nobody wanted the iPod. Everybody said it would fail. And certainly no one was asking for a centralized music store. Pfff! I don't really agree with OC on other points, but the iPod really didn't scratch an itch. It changed the game by creating something new, not something that "solved a problem." To say the iPod solved a problem is pure hind…

I have to disagree with you here. I had a couple MP3 players before the iPod and it was obvious that they were pieces of crap. Very obvious. I didn't know how to make them better. I knew that they had unnecessary pain in syncing, control, and storage space.

I don't own any mobile Apple products now but the iPod really did make portable digital music players mainstream through its cachet AND the problems it fixed.