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Black Girls Code launching in Miami

miamiherald.com

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Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#61

Post by jlgreco »

danellis wrote: post #59
MichaelGG wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread isn't going to resolve anything on this "issue"; just look up affirmative action. There's the logic you provide, which is solid. The counterargument is that certain groups currently have a major disadvantage and specifically targeting them improves things, despite it excluding on race or other characteristics. In this case, it may be that "black girls" wouldn't feel comfortable or would be significantly o…

If black girls don't feel comfortable learning with people who aren't, how are they going to cope with a job in the currently white-male dominated industry anyway? Sheltering people doesn't seem like good preparation for reality.

I don't think we should necessarily expect children to be able to cope with the range of social situations that we expect adults to handle.

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#62

Post by Karunamon »

pekk wrote: post #57
Karunamon wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something something good intentions. "Helping" doesn't automatically mean you're doing it right or are free from criticism or comment.

If Black Girls Code is not actually helping the black girls, then it's not helping. "You didn't help everybody" is not a valid criticism of an initiative to help some people. If you have some other people you want helped, then help them yourself rather than shooting down other people's altruism.

Saying:

"Hey, wait a minute, wouldn't this time and energy be better spent helping all disadvantaged people instead of one small group to the exclusion of others?"

..is a criticism, not a "shooting down". Being altruistic does not grant you a blanket exception from criticism.

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#63

Post by sp332 »

Karunamon wrote: post #52
sp332 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "further insular". It's a group that already exists. Treating people as all equal is fine. Pretending that all people are treated as equal in society is not helpful.

I'd argue that perpetuating the problem of people being treated different in society is even worse.

But middle-class white men are disproportionately encouraged to be programmers. As the article points out: "There were very few women and nobody of color. I found that puzzling since the startup industry was obviously booming." So to be fair, we should either stop encouraging them, or start encouraging people who are outside that group.

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#64

Post by sAuronas »

elwell wrote: post #4

I wasn't thinking about race; now I am. I believe minority focused groups, such as this, perpetuate racial discrimination. Can't we all just be one big group of humans? Disagree with my viewpoint? Please comment before you downvote. I'm willing to rethink my views.

Sure we can...however, as a former (post-race discussion) black man learning to program on my own, I can say that the problems of "urban black youth" (as I was once called as an undergrad by a professor) are unique and not going away with wish-think -- or -- technology. Therefore, targeted programs at the underrepresented are required in the same vein that laser surgery is targeted at the cancer cells and not the whole body (i.e., your "one big group of humans"). Long live humans... cheers

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#65

Post by jimzvz »

seanv wrote: post #43
crazygringo wrote: post #30

It's clear that the goals are extremely laudable -- to help a disadvantaged group gain experience. But this indeed asks the question, which as far as I can tell is completely unaddressed on their website: why create a group that excludes others by sex and race? How do they explain to a black 14-year-old that their group isn't going to help him ? Or a Hispanic 14-year-old girl? Or any 14-year-old whose parents are bel…

very good point - I imagine though that it's MAINLY to get attention from groups that would donate to such a cause... The more niche the demographic the easier it is to raise money from institutes who aim to help those demos. So short answer, money probably... We can look at a silver lining and hope they expand into other demos, we will see i guess.

and the problem with this is that the groups have a conflict of interest, if they do solve the problem that they are addressing then no one will continue to fund them. So the only way that they can stay in business is to make sure that the problem isn't solved, gets worse or is seen to get worse. Erin Pizzey discusses how this has happened to feminist organisations in this video[1].

[1] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5AOj6EhRuY

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#66

Post by stephp »

dethstar wrote: post #10
elwell wrote: post #4

I wasn't thinking about race; now I am. I believe minority focused groups, such as this, perpetuate racial discrimination. Can't we all just be one big group of humans? Disagree with my viewpoint? Please comment before you downvote. I'm willing to rethink my views.

Trying to join the masses of white males have often resulted in failure, should those black women that are trying to learn something wait until they might be accepted instead of starting their own safe spaces, just to please your idea of "one big group of humans"?

This is the problem exactly. As a woman, I never felt that I was welcomed and struggled to "belong" among the typical coders/programmers. There are too many contributing factors to even begin to list here, but I've spoken to enough other women about their feelings regarding tech and the tech space to know they were never individual to me.

But then I never felt quite right about chick groups either, if only because it isn't the REAL tech scene. It's just another subculture with its own idiosyncrasies. You can stay there as long as you want, and still be intimidated by the larger tech space where all the big stuff is happening, thus making no substantial dent in anything.

So I do believe the problem they're trying to address is a real and important one; this way of dealing with it just doesn't seem ideal to me.

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#67

Post by pekk »

Karunamon wrote: post #62
pekk wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Black Girls Code is not actually helping the black girls, then it's not helping. "You didn't help everybody" is not a valid criticism of an initiative to help some people. If you have some other people you want helped, then help them yourself rather than shooting down other people's altruism.

Saying: "Hey, wait a minute, wouldn't this time and energy be better spent helping all disadvantaged people instead of one small group to the exclusion of others?" ..is a criticism, not a "shooting down". Being altruistic does not grant you a blanket exception from criticism.

Helping one person is not doing a wrong thing. If you want someone else helped, you help them.

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#69

Post by Karunamon »

sp332 wrote: post #63
Karunamon wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that perpetuating the problem of people being treated different in society is even worse.

But middle-class white men are disproportionately encouraged to be programmers. As the article points out: "There were very few women and nobody of color. I found that puzzling since the startup industry was obviously booming." So to be fair, we should either stop encouraging them, or start encouraging people who are outside that group.

Seems to be it would be more productive to try to encourage more than a minority of a minority, as it were. Female programmers are already rare, blacks more so just by statistics. What about other races? Hispanic women are out of luck? Asian? Native?

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#70

Post by Karunamon »

pekk wrote: post #67
Karunamon wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying: "Hey, wait a minute, wouldn't this time and energy be better spent helping all disadvantaged people instead of one small group to the exclusion of others?" ..is a criticism, not a "shooting down". Being altruistic does not grant you a blanket exception from criticism.

Helping one person is not doing a wrong thing. If you want someone else helped, you help them.

Who said it was a wrong thing? It's fundamentally good, but i'd argue wrongheaded.
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