Black Girls Code launching in Miami • Hacker News Board

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#31

Post by MichaelGG » Fri, Oct 25, 2013, 8:12 PM UTC

elwell wrote: post #4

I wasn't thinking about race; now I am. I believe minority focused groups, such as this, perpetuate racial discrimination. Can't we all just be one big group of humans? Disagree with my viewpoint? Please comment before you downvote. I'm willing to rethink my views.

This thread isn't going to resolve anything on this "issue"; just look up affirmative action. There's the logic you provide, which is solid. The counterargument is that certain groups currently have a major disadvantage and specifically targeting them improves things, despite it excluding on race or other characteristics. In this case, it may be that "black girls" wouldn't feel comfortable or would be significantly outnumbered in a general "group of humans" so excluding people provides a net benefit in this case.

Another view is that private groups should be able to do whatever they want, and discrimination is only a problem when it's a problem. If "black girls" grew to dominate the industry or significantly change things, then it's become problematic. Obviously that's a rather subjective measurement hence all the "debate".

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#32

Post by alasano » Fri, Oct 25, 2013, 8:12 PM UTC

While it may seem on the surface that a racially/gender motivated coding class is superfluous, I think that the founders are seeking to appeal to the complete opposite of the coder stereotype (aka white male).

Raising awareness and breaking down stereotypes is a good thing and it seems to me that it's hard to do without seeming like some type of segregation whilst doing it.

Empowering people isn't about making them better than others, but simply raising everyone to the same level.

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#33

Post by pekk » Fri, Oct 25, 2013, 8:12 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #30

It's clear that the goals are extremely laudable -- to help a disadvantaged group gain experience. But this indeed asks the question, which as far as I can tell is completely unaddressed on their website: why create a group that excludes others by sex and race? How do they explain to a black 14-year-old that their group isn't going to help him ? Or a Hispanic 14-year-old girl? Or any 14-year-old whose parents are bel…

If you want to start a group for black boys, then do it.

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#34

Post by Bsharp » Fri, Oct 25, 2013, 8:13 PM UTC

tomblomfield wrote: post #7

I really value initiatives that teach people to code, and I've taught at a few myself. But I wonder at the value of this increasing focus on certain minorities. Should we have classes focussed on teaching gay people to code?

I think they are simply trying to get an under-represented group interested in coding, with people they will likely be more comfortable around. This isn't an elite group of hackers excluding other sexes and races, it's meant to be a springboard into coding for a demographic which generally doesn't.

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#35

Post by TallGuyShort » Fri, Oct 25, 2013, 8:14 PM UTC

tinco wrote: post #11

elwell wrote: post #4

I wasn't thinking about race; now I am. I believe minority focused groups, such as this, perpetuate racial discrimination. Can't we all just be one big group of humans? Disagree with my viewpoint? Please comment before you downvote. I'm willing to rethink my views.

No one cares if you are thinking of race, because obviously it is not about you. It's easy to not think about racism when racism isn't an issue in your environment. It's not as if now that you're exposed to racism, that you will perpetuate it, right?

Begging your pardon, I grew up in South Africa during apartheid and feel very much the same as the OP. I recognize that these groups have value for victims of racism and are done with good intentions. However, I also feel that if they are over-done or are started with more of a pride about one's (traditionally persecuted) race than the humble intention to serve others, they are only breeding animosity between races and keeping race as a "big deal" in our minds.

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#36

Post by shanelja » Fri, Oct 25, 2013, 8:14 PM UTC

pekk wrote: post #33

crazygringo wrote: post #30

It's clear that the goals are extremely laudable -- to help a disadvantaged group gain experience. But this indeed asks the question, which as far as I can tell is completely unaddressed on their website: why create a group that excludes others by sex and race? How do they explain to a black 14-year-old that their group isn't going to help him ? Or a Hispanic 14-year-old girl? Or any 14-year-old whose parents are bel…

If you want to start a group for black boys, then do it.

Did you even read the comment?

It's not about helping black people or women or Chinese people or men, it's about helping everyone.

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#37

Post by saltyknuckles » Fri, Oct 25, 2013, 8:14 PM UTC

fchollet wrote: post #20

fidotron wrote: post #9

It's very true that if you aren't based in SV but visit it regularly this is something that jars every damn time. Doing something positive about it is great. The other side is the rest of us should see it as an opportunity, given that the effective monoculture in SV gives them a sort of blindness to certain product areas.

I never thought of SV as a monoculture, when it comes to nationality and race (it does suffer from a bad case of groupthink though...) In SV you will find engineers, designers and managers from all over the world --Russia, China, Europe, etc., and when it comes to race you will find very large numbers of highly successful Asians and Indians. Likely more so than in other US industry.

What you just wrote didn't include black or hispanics. So now you have Black Girls Code.

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#38

Post by Karunamon » Fri, Oct 25, 2013, 8:15 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #22

Karunamon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeez, talk about unhelpful and condescending.

Condescending maybe but GP has a point. If racism is already a big deal, ignoring it isn't going to help. Explicitly addressing it and helping out the less-privileged group will.

Doesn't really address the point at all. Maybe racism is best solved by treating all as equals instead of creating further insular groups? It does seem logically absurd on its face.

The first step is to stop snarking at people who dare to ask.

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#39

Post by tomasien » Fri, Oct 25, 2013, 8:16 PM UTC

consonants wrote: post #13

tomasien wrote: post #6

I'm really, really worried about this thread. Holding my breathe. (Edit: for context, when I posted this, there was 1 comment by Bsharp.)

Threads like this provide a moment to gaze into the abyss

Oh my god this turned to shit before I even hit post on my comment. Amazing.

Re: Black Girls Code launching in Miami

#40

Post by Karunamon » Fri, Oct 25, 2013, 8:17 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #28

elwell wrote: post #4

I wasn't thinking about race; now I am. I believe minority focused groups, such as this, perpetuate racial discrimination. Can't we all just be one big group of humans? Disagree with my viewpoint? Please comment before you downvote. I'm willing to rethink my views.

Disagree with my viewpoint? Please comment before you downvote. The presence of this part of your comment indicates that you already know the answer to what you've asked, and are really just trolling by 'playing the innocent'. Please don't do that.

Or, it indicates acknowledgement that people will rabidly attack anything even remotely resembling a challenge of the status quo when it comes to sociological issues. You just did it, too. Why on earth do you play off "think before you down vote" as a negative?!