New banner ads push actual Google results to bottom 12% of the screen • Hacker News Board

Re: New banner ads push actual Google results to bottom 12% of the screen

#81

Post by sharkweek » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 9:49 PM UTC

lnanek2 wrote: post #76

anon1385 wrote: post #31

Page and Brin themselves once pointed out the problems of accepting ads or paid placement, with some rather ironic examples: Furthermore, advertising income often provides an incentive to provide poor quality search results. For example, we noticed a major search engine would not return a large airline's homepage when the airline's name was given as a query. It so happened that the airline had placed an expensive ad,…

It can make sense to buy an ad even if you are the top result. It basically makes your top result take up twice as much room. More room = more clicks. It also pushes any competitor links creeping up below your top result from being above the scroll. And of course, with this new sell out mechanic, you get even more than double the space to shove out your competition.

These are also very cheap clicks, especially relative to non-branded key terms.

Re: New banner ads push actual Google results to bottom 12% of the screen

#82

Post by saraid216 » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:15 PM UTC

xux wrote: post #68

aroch wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apple SEC ruling" is a fairly specific keyword search whereas searching, blanketly, for a company name is not.

But maybe I'm thirsting to learn more about the juicy fruit. Do I get a page courtesy of Apple Inc too?

Most people would actually search "apples".

Re: New banner ads push actual Google results to bottom 12% of the screen

#83

Post by mildtrepidation » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:20 PM UTC

I've been criticized more than once by designers for making references to content being "below the fold." Of course there's no actual fold, and yes, it's an old term from the newspaper world. However, it's very clearly still relevant, even if it's not as easily definable: The harder you make it for people to find your content, the less likely they are to view it or continue parsing your message, regardless of what it is.

Re: New banner ads push actual Google results to bottom 12% of the screen

#84

Post by svantana » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:20 PM UTC

spindritf wrote: post #6

Someone searching for Southwest Airlines is probably looking for... Southwest Airlines. So the very first result is a useful one. With sections of the official website conveniently linked and a pretty picture on top. This sounds to me like a complete non-issue. If you don't like ads, install AdBlock. Of course if you need clicks for your website, carry on.

This worries me though. I use AdBlock and get really annoyed when using friends' machines without it. But the system won't work if too many people use AdBlock. So if more ads -> more adblock -> then what?

My nightmare scenario is the spread of what already goes on on alot of less scrupulous sites: "we have detected that you are using AdBlock. Turn it off to view our content".

It reminds me of the excellent dystopia-satire "Black Mirror" where citizens are forced to view ads and if they look away or shut their eyes, an increasingly loud tone is played along with a "warning"...

Re: New banner ads push actual Google results to bottom 12% of the screen

#85

Post by SCdF » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:23 PM UTC

This is such a non-issue. They searched for an actual brand name, and they got branded results. If I searched for "how do airplanes work?" and got a massive Southwest Airlines banner this would be something to complain about. Currently though, this is just link bait.

Re: New banner ads push actual Google results to bottom 12% of the screen

#86

Post by dzhiurgis » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:41 PM UTC

svantana wrote: post #84

spindritf wrote: post #6

Someone searching for Southwest Airlines is probably looking for... Southwest Airlines. So the very first result is a useful one. With sections of the official website conveniently linked and a pretty picture on top. This sounds to me like a complete non-issue. If you don't like ads, install AdBlock. Of course if you need clicks for your website, carry on.

This worries me though. I use AdBlock and get really annoyed when using friends' machines without it. But the system won't work if too many people use AdBlock. So if more ads -> more adblock -> then what? My nightmare scenario is the spread of what already goes on on alot of less scrupulous sites: "we have detected that you are using AdBlock. Turn it off to view our content". It reminds me of the excellent dystopia-s…

I hate the fact that, after a while, AdBlock automatically checks "Allow some non-intrusive advertising" checkbox.

And "some" means several hundred supporters.

Re: New banner ads push actual Google results to bottom 12% of the screen

#87

Post by spankalee » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 11:00 PM UTC

Disclaimer: I'm a Googler

I think this is a pretty disingenuous analysis of what's going on. It's obvious from the comparison to the [Virgin America] search that this is a bigger change that just adding a "banner ad".

Notice that for [Virgin America] there are _two_ spots that bring you to virginamerical.com, the ad and the first organic result. This is redundant, wastes space, and probably is confusing to some users. I don't know why a company buys ads for navigational queries where it's already the top result, but they do, and I'd argue it's bad for users.

On the [Southwest Airlines] query you can see that there's no redundant ad anymore - the navigational ad and the first organic result are combined. Calling that whole box and ad, when it contains the same content that the former top organic result used to, is misleading, but makes for a much more sensational headline when you want to claim that most of the screen is ads.

I'm not sure about the experiment, that's not my area, but my guess that this is part of an attempt to not have this ad+organic confusion for navigational queries by allowing the owner of the first result of a nav query to merge the ad with the result into a professional and official looking box. Maybe that'll work, maybe not, which is most likely why it's an experiment.

Re: New banner ads push actual Google results to bottom 12% of the screen

#88

Post by llamataboot » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 11:10 PM UTC

ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #79

I am convinced they have monkeys for designers. WHY on earth would you allow "About 30,2000,000 results (0.25 seconds)" to take up space?! Are these guys insane? That's the most useless information on the page, and it's pushing the ads and search results further down.

Don't they supposedly use 8 million A/B tests for every little design tweak?

Re: New banner ads push actual Google results to bottom 12% of the screen

#89

Post by mindcrime » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 11:11 PM UTC

Wow, that's absolute shit. Horrible, horrible, brain-dead move by Google. It won't happen overnight, but this will inevitably wind up pushing people to seek out a better search engine (read: one that doesn't display huge honkin' banner ads like this) and sooner or later, somebody will come along and offer equal (or better!) search results, nix the banner ad, and eat Google's lunch.

Google are so big and powerful that it's easy and tempting to think of them as invulnerable and immortal, but remember... people have thought that about many companies in the past, more than a few of whom are no longer with us.

Edit: OK, IF this really is only for brand names and doesn't show up for more general searches ("cheap airline tickets", etc.) then maybe it won't be received so badly. That said, I still believe that, in general, "big honkin' banner ads" are NOT going to be well received on Google search result pages. I guess time will tell.

Re: New banner ads push actual Google results to bottom 12% of the screen

#90

Post by mindcrime » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 11:14 PM UTC

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #74

tyree732 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider an alternate universe where Southwest Airlines has a worse reputation due to a variety of bad practices they've engaged in. These banner ads have the potential for pushing many hits describing these practices further down the page, stifling the ability for organic results to properly reflect public opinion on a company.

As pointed out below, these images aren't "pushing" anything down anything. They are about the same height as the stuff they replaced. http://searchengineland.com/figz/wp-content/seloads/2013/10/...

> As pointed out below, these images aren't "pushing" anything down anything. They are about the same height as the stuff they replaced.

Doesn't matter. Users are going to see this, and their mind is going to register "huge fucking banner ad". They aren't going to go find old screenshots, break out a ruler and do pixel by pixel comparisons.