NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders • Hacker News Board

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#11

Post by todayiamme » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:24 PM UTC

I quite frankly don't understand why anyone would condemn such acts of espionage. They are not only essential for a nation state to function successfully, but they are also a far superior way for the US to maintain its hegemony as compared to using acts of brute force.

Now I do not condone Orwellian spying on the citizens of your own republic, but this really is their job and it's quite impressive that they're this good at it. Especially given the fact that historically the US has not been completely invested in espionage and has favoured building up capacity after key events and quickly dismantling the apparatus once the emergency has passed. What these scandals are offering is a glimpse into a dramatic shift in the way the US conducts its affairs and that in of itself is quite noteworthy.

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#12

Post by isaacdl » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:27 PM UTC

This is honestly the revelation that I worry about least in these NSA leaks. Isn't foreign surveillance basically the raison d'etre for the NSA?

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#13

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:27 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #6

This is the understood and expected function of the NSA, isn't it? Collecting signals intelligence from foreign sources? Does anyone honestly believe the Germans aren't regularly trying to figure out ways to listen to American officials' communications? I find the NSA's domestic spying to be appalling... but this is the sort of thing everyone knew the NSA was responsible for since its inception.

[deleted]

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#14

Post by npalli » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:30 PM UTC

What is the strategy here? Of releasing information about NSA activities with foreign nations? Seems like it is mixing a potentially illegal activity (domestic spying) with their designated job. Doesn't every country try to do this. The NSA personnel could very well have undergone considerable risk to get this sort of thing going on. On the other hand, Joe public sees Snowden fleeing and chilling out in Russia/China and other "despotic" regimes.

Definitely Snowden:0 and NSA:1 in this case.

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#15

Post by nickff » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:33 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #5

Yes. And the US is the only country whose intelligence service has ever done anything like this. And newsflash ... we probably bug your embassies too.

This comment reminded me that the USSR once built an embassy for the USA in Moscow; it was so full of bugs everywhere that the Americans had to tear it down and start from scratch.

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#16

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:33 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #6

This is the understood and expected function of the NSA, isn't it? Collecting signals intelligence from foreign sources? Does anyone honestly believe the Germans aren't regularly trying to figure out ways to listen to American officials' communications? I find the NSA's domestic spying to be appalling... but this is the sort of thing everyone knew the NSA was responsible for since its inception.

[deleted]

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#17

Post by lallysingh » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:37 PM UTC

isaacdl wrote: post #12

This is honestly the revelation that I worry about least in these NSA leaks. Isn't foreign surveillance basically the raison d'etre for the NSA?

It may be one of the largest motivating factors in changing NSA practices, however. Pissed partners can lead to loss of trade, and the NSA suddenly becomes a campaign issue for the next round.

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#18

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:38 PM UTC

isaacdl wrote: post #12

This is honestly the revelation that I worry about least in these NSA leaks. Isn't foreign surveillance basically the raison d'etre for the NSA?

[deleted]

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#19

Post by conductor » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:38 PM UTC

This is the top comment on the Reddit thread:

"They went after high ranking military officers. They went after members of congress. The Senate and the House - especially on the intelligence committees, and on the armed services committees and judicial. But they went after other ones too. They went after lawyers and law firms. Heaps of lawyers and law firms. They went after judges. One of the judges is now sitting on the supreme court that I had his wiretap information in my hand. Two are former FISA court judges. They went after state department officials. They went after people in the executive service that were part of the White House - their own people! They went after anti-war groups. They went after US companies that do international business around the world. They went after US banking firms and financial firms that do international business. They went after NGOs like the red cross and people like that that go overseas and do humanitarian work. They went after a few anti-war civil rights groups...

Now here's the big one. I haven't given you any names. This was in summer 2004. One of the papers that I held in my hand was to wiretap a bunch of numbers associated with a 40-something year old wanna-be Senator from Illinois. You wouldn't happen to know where that guy lives right now, would you? It's a big White House in Washington DC. That's who they went after. And that's the President of the United States now. And I could give you names of a bunch of different people they went after that I saw! The names and the phone numbers of congress. Not only the names but it looked like staff people too, and their staff. And not only their Washington office but back home in their congressional offices that they have in their home state offices and stuff like that. This thing is incredible what NSA has done. They've basically turned themselves - in my opinion - into a rogue agency that has J Edgar Hoover capabilities on a monstrous scale on steroids."

--former nsa officer Russ Tice...

June 20th interview on Boiling Frogs... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPyxeqcCjkc (full 1hr+ radio interview)

or watch 11 minute RT interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6m1XbWOfVk

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#20

Post by omonra » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 10:38 PM UTC

I think we need a bit of context here. US is the hegemon.

Therefore it's not reasonable to apply same expectations of how it acts as we do pleasant little countries like Norway or Netherlands (who are probably only independent because US defended them against Germans & Soviets).