The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones • Hacker News Board

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#101

Post by marcosdumay » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 5:55 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #50

The PC market isn't dead, but then again, the Mainframe market isn't dead either. The Post-PC devices[1] (tablets / smartphones) are it for the majority of folks from here on out. They are easier to own since the upgrade path is heading to buy new device and type in my password to have all my stuff load on it. If I want to watch something on the big screen, I just put a device on my TV. Need to type, add a keyboard.…

> I truly wish someone was set to keep building something for the hobbyist

I really don't understand your concern.

Hobbists have a wider selection of computing tools than ever before (altough, that statement was true at any time since the 50's). We have the entire arduino ecosystem for hardware hobbists, throwaway PCs like the Raspberry Pi for embebbing real computers everywhere, several different standards of desktop-capable parts for more powerfull systems, and the server ecosystem for the real beefy ones.

Most of those computer types aren't even able to run Windows or OSX. iCloud and Secureboot won't make them go away.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#102

Post by RussianCow » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 5:56 PM UTC

datasage wrote: post #94

usaphp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~$1,000 sounds quite cheap for a gaming machine which can still run any modern game at highest settings. I remember I built mine at about the same time (2010) for $2500, top notch video card, fastest cpu, lots of ram, but its 2013 now and I can not say that it runs any modern game at highest settings.

In terms of gaming performance, when you go from mid range machine to high end machine, you are often spending 2-4 times as much without 2-4 times the performance. You hit diminishing returns big time. I go with generally mid range components with my gaming machine. Even then, I upgrade every 3 generations for CPU and every other generation for video card. CPU performance doesn't impact gaming as much as it used to.…

Bingo. And there's now some pretty fierce competition between Nvidia and AMD again, so you can often catch some pretty good deals on a GPU or a combo if you pay attention.

I still use an AMD processor on my gaming/development rig, because upgrading to a better Intel CPU would have cost me nearly twice as much (I already had an AMD motherboard, so that helped). I don't notice a bottleneck in most games.

I think the best strategy is to get mid-range components and just upgrade more often. You get way more bang for your buck, and you can always sell the old components on eBay or whatever.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#103

Post by shocks » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 5:57 PM UTC

carterschonwald wrote: post #45

fiatmoney wrote: post #23

"For what" is the obvious question. Web development with a remote testing environment, office applications, email, web browsing - sure, a Core 2 Duo is more than good enough if your software environment is kept in order. Audio / video / photoshop, gaming, developing software that does math, data analysis - you can never get fast enough. The limiting factor is if your computer's feedback loop is tighter than your brai…

Emphatic agreement. I wind up helping folks a lot with writing high performance software, and it's very easy to get to the point where the time to run a model is totally determined by how fast the CPU and IO are. I'm talking problems where naively written C would take an hour, but if I'm careful and use some blend of very clever c or Haskell, the computation is done in 2-5 minutes

Your problems sound interesting. Could you elaborate?

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#104

Post by dingaling » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 5:58 PM UTC

evo_9 wrote: post #35

The PC is dead, it's just not dead for computer professionals, and never will be. But for the rest of the world - think mom, dad, gramps,grammy - why on earth do the need the headaches of a full PC (mac or windows)? A good tablet is basically enough for almost everyone else.

> The PC is dead

Dell, Lenovo Toshiba and HP all report sales of laptops are increasing; 3.5% in the last quarter.

Death doesn't sound too bad.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/10/technology/mac-pc-sales/

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#105

Post by UVB-76 » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 5:59 PM UTC

romaniv wrote: post #85

UVB-76 wrote: post #46

People snack on smartphones, dine on tablets, and cook on PCs. A lot of people don't want to cook, so are happy with smartphones and tablets. Why buy a desktop or laptop when an iPad will do everything you need for a fraction of the price? That's what people mean when they sound the death knell for the PC.

Why cook when you can eat chips and order pizza? Probably because it's better for you and because cooking has cultural significance that goes beyond simply replenishing calories. People who cheerfully proclaim that PCs are dead forger that PCs aren't just devices, they also attained a certain level of cultural significance. IF the death of PCs also means the death of PC culture (which involves things like game moddin…

Division of labor. Not everyone has to be a producer in every sphere; it's okay to be a producer in some, and a consumer in others.

Plenty of people are too busy with other aspects of their lives — doing things which may, for all we know, be of great cultural significance — to spend time being a producer in the digital sphere as well.

Some people devote their lives to cooking for others; others devote their lives to other pursuits, and only ever consume food produced by others.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#106

Post by UnFleshedOne » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 6:00 PM UTC

qwerta wrote: post #66

bhouston wrote: post #15

CPUs have not gotten significantly faster in the last couple years, especially at the high end. Back in Q1 2010 I got an Intel Core i7 980X which benchmarked at 8911 according to http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7+X+980+... Now in Q2 2013 (3 years later) the very top of the line processor available, an Intel Xeon E5-2690 v2, is only twice as fast at 16164: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=In…

CPUs are actually getting slower after overclocking I have water cooled 2600k at 5GHz running 24/7. Bigger GPU and more cores brings additional complexity and more heat. No other CPU can handle this without blowing up.

Does it perform faster in benchmarks than later CPUs overclocked to their lower maximums? Clock speed alone is not a good indicator.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#107

Post by davexunit » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 6:00 PM UTC

I agree with the author. I built my desktop computer in 2009 (I think) and it's still going strong. I see no reason to upgrade. I also recently purchased a used Thinkpad X220. It's a few years old but has no problem doing everything that I want to do with it.

It's wasteful to be throwing away computers constantly. In the PC world, I've noticed that it's particularly prevalent among "gamers" that are convinced that they need a new computer every couple of years.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#108

Post by justincormack » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 6:00 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #96

I've felt this way since I built my last desktop in 2008. I was sort-of waiting for the "gee its time to upgrade" mark to roll around in 3 or 4 years, but it hasn't happened yet. Any games I want to play it still runs very well, and it still feels very fast to me even compared to modern off-the-shelf systems. When my friends ask for laptop-buying advice I tell them if they like the keyboard and screen, then its just…

I would pay for a silent PC. I paid a lot for a quiet Apple PowerPC Mac pro back in the day and built a quiet PC but they are not silent and I have moved to a quieter place and I can hear them (yes the Mac runs Fedora now). I have some silent ARM machines but they don't quite cut it yet though maybe the new quad core one will.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#109

Post by willvarfar » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 6:01 PM UTC

> Of course PC sales will be low. When you don't have enough memory, you buy more RAM. When your processor is too slow, buy a new CPU, or you get a new heat sink and over clock it. You rarely have the need to buy a whole new box

This is not end-consumers nor businesses. Enthusiasts who were building and upgrading their computers were always a small market.

The article talks about upgrading repeatedly, but I don't think the author can extrapolate their own expertise over the rest of the traditional desktop users.

Re: The PC is not dead, we just don't need new ones

#110

Post by nahname » Thu, Oct 24, 2013, 6:01 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #96

I've felt this way since I built my last desktop in 2008. I was sort-of waiting for the "gee its time to upgrade" mark to roll around in 3 or 4 years, but it hasn't happened yet. Any games I want to play it still runs very well, and it still feels very fast to me even compared to modern off-the-shelf systems. When my friends ask for laptop-buying advice I tell them if they like the keyboard and screen, then its just…

Most game makers are targeting consoles, which just went through a longer than usual shelf life. With the new ones coming online, we will see more PC upgrades from gamers.