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Airbnb a big boost to NYC economy, study finds
21–30 of 33 posts
Re: Airbnb a big boost to NYC economy, study finds
#22Can anyone comment on the difference between "contributions to total spending in the city economy" and "economic activity generated in the city"? I am curious about the disparity in these two statements: SF: From April 2011 May 2012 guests and hosts utilizing Airbnb have contributed $56 million in total spending to San Francisco’s economy [1] NYC: Over the course of a year, Airbnb generated $632 million in economic a…
Apple put out similar hand-wavey figures last year: https://www.apple.com/about/job-creation/
I think the point boils down to:
1) dollars paid to hosts are counted towards the city economy (ostensibly most of those would be spent in the city) -- this is direct
2) renters need to eat etc, and those monies should be counted to the economic activity -- this is indirect
Re: Airbnb a big boost to NYC economy, study finds
#23Bunch of garbage. Enabling tourists to stay in different neighborhoods doesn't grow the economy, it just shifts where some of the money is spent from midtown to downtown.
Without arguing the motivations of this "third party" study, you ignore the fact that it finds: - People stayed longer and spent more - Money ended up in individuals' hands, instead of a hotel megacorp chain - Much was outside Manhattan (a distinction from your claim of "midtown to downtown")
Without access to the report it seems that any discussion is difficult. I think the only thing you can say is that OP is "ignoring the fact that metro.us reported HR&A's claims to have made the following findings:"
Re: Airbnb a big boost to NYC economy, study finds
#24This is not an independent, peer-reviewed study. It was commissioned by AirBnB. HR&A, the study's authors, point the interested to AirBnB's press release versus a full paper [1]. One would be cautioned against taking its findings seriously. I am even intrigued as to why AirBnB felt it was unnecessary or even counterproductive to release the full paper. [1] https://twitter.com/hraadvisors/status/393039913307758592
A good essay on the PR business: http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
Re: Airbnb a big boost to NYC economy, study finds
#25This is something I see often ... a company wants to prove some positive thing about their business, so they commission a study, only to have it torn down in comments because it was they who paid for it. I totally get that it's a conflict of interest, but what alternative is there? Seems like a study of this kind is really valuable to be able to contribute to the policy conversation that's currently underway. Would t…
I agree. Rather than arguing against the data in the study its easy to just use the strawman argument of "but it's paid for by Airbnb so it must be biased."
But I will say that I would like to see the actual original data in the study instead of just the numerous blog posts about the study. I did some internet searching and was unable to find the original study, just news articles about it. If we had the original study and we could see the data sources and actual data points then we could have a real discussion about whether or not the study is legitimate.
Re: Airbnb a big boost to NYC economy, study finds
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep. I actually think it would be valuable to have a third-party non-profit entity that provides economic impact assessments of start-ups like Uber and Airbnb, so we are backing up our regulatory policy changes on data rather than emotion or lobbying.
non-profit do you mean university? I'd rather have university do the research. I often think non-profit is not as independent as we think. After all, a lot of non-profit are to advocate against public policy. Whereas usually university research (from multiple sources) seem to be more independent.
I agree that non-profits can and often are not independent of private influences. Universities can fall under the same influences as well, such as MIT's concrete research studies being funded and advocated by the Portland Concrete Association.
In this situation, I would have liked to see an independent non-profit or University group that was funded 50/50 by New York City and Airbnb to do the study. Perhaps you can argue that the funding arrangement is not perfect, but it's definitely a step in the right direction.
Re: Airbnb a big boost to NYC economy, study finds
#27This is something I see often ... a company wants to prove some positive thing about their business, so they commission a study, only to have it torn down in comments because it was they who paid for it. I totally get that it's a conflict of interest, but what alternative is there? Seems like a study of this kind is really valuable to be able to contribute to the policy conversation that's currently underway. Would t…
The problem is that the underlying "facts" are really misinterpretations.
> 62 percent of Airbnb hosts say Airbnb helped them stay in their homes
The statement seems to suggest that most people wouldn't be able to afford their homes if it weren't for airbnb, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't the question they posed. If you asked "would you be able to afford your home or apartment without airbnb?", then you'd see far less than 62%.
> Airbnb visitors stay on average 6.4 nights (compared to 3.9 for hotel guests) and spend $880 at NYC businesses (compared to $690 for average New York visitors).
The monies paid to rent a hotel room is money paid to a NYC business and is omitted from this count. If it were counted, using the average stay numbers people contribute more to the economy by staying at the hotel than with airbnb.
Another looming question is whether you should count new yorkers who use airbnb to stay in other places. this study doesn't consider that factor at all, and it's likely that the loss to the NYC economy due to those people exceeds the gain due to others coming into the city.
Re: Airbnb a big boost to NYC economy, study finds
#28Dumping industrial waste into the Hudson, prostitution, and the drug trade are also boosts to the local economy. Think of all the jobs! However, they are are illegal in NYC, just like Airbnb, though the externalities are much worse in those cases. The point is that most laws restrict a bit of economic freedom for other societal benefits. Think of how much cheaper housing would be if only we ditched those pesky building codes!
Re: Airbnb a big boost to NYC economy, study finds
#29I happen to work for a company that does economic impact assessments, and I'm skeptical of this "study", to say the least (it's hard to tell w/o a link to the full paper, only a press release). Basic unanswered issues:
(1) How do you show how many guests would not have come to NY at all if AirBnB didn't exist? This is called the counterfactual. (If they would have come anyway, then hotels lose the same amount of business, leading to no net gain.) And, if money is just being shuffled from midtown to the outer boroughs, how is that a net win for NYC? Broken window fallacy, anyone?
(2) I guess you could argue that NYC is better off if the same dollars are going to residents rather than corporate hotel chains (if you show higher multipliers, maybe some good externalities like supporting artists). But that's a very complex assessment in itself, likely way beyond the scope of this study. And you've got to count only net benefit versus the counterfactual.
(3) Sure, AirBnB guests might stay longer and spend more (what data is that based on? Don't many people use AirBnB because it's cheaper?), but that correlation doesn't mean that some magic AirBnB pixie dust caused them to do so. And is this offset by less money spent on the lodging itself compared to an hotel?
Re: Airbnb a big boost to NYC economy, study finds
#30Can anyone comment on the difference between "contributions to total spending in the city economy" and "economic activity generated in the city"? I am curious about the disparity in these two statements: SF: From April 2011 May 2012 guests and hosts utilizing Airbnb have contributed $56 million in total spending to San Francisco’s economy [1] NYC: Over the course of a year, Airbnb generated $632 million in economic a…
Apple put out similar hand-wavey figures last year: https://www.apple.com/about/job-creation/ I think the point boils down to: 1) dollars paid to hosts are counted towards the city economy (ostensibly most of those would be spent in the city) -- this is direct 2) renters need to eat etc, and those monies should be counted to the economic activity -- this is indirect
>renters need to eat etc
Wouldn't they have to eat regardless of where they stay?