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Dr. Arjun Srinivasan: We’ve Reached “The End of Antibiotics, Period”

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Re: Dr. Arjun Srinivasan: We’ve Reached “The End of Antibiotics, Period”

#111

Post by CurtMonash »

tokenadult wrote: post #70

The interviewed expert has very good credentials and clinical experience to be talking about what he is talking about, and his warnings should be taken seriously. But even at that, the fallacious teleological language he uses about biological evolution by natural selection suggests a way out of this problem. When he says, "Bacteria, like any living organism, want to survive," and "So anything that we do to try and ki…

Right. We could lose the utility of all naturally-occurring antibiotics and still be OK because we synthesize new ones.

However, right now the first part is happening and the second part isn't, so until medical science and technology advance sufficiently far -- if indeed they ever do, and specifically if they ever do before a devastating plague hits -- we're in trouble.

Re: Dr. Arjun Srinivasan: We’ve Reached “The End of Antibiotics, Period”

#113

Post by resu_nimda »

tokenadult wrote: post #70

The interviewed expert has very good credentials and clinical experience to be talking about what he is talking about, and his warnings should be taken seriously. But even at that, the fallacious teleological language he uses about biological evolution by natural selection suggests a way out of this problem. When he says, "Bacteria, like any living organism, want to survive," and "So anything that we do to try and ki…

Haha, I had the same thought, basically that evolution is not directed to overcome particular threats, and can certainly fail to do so. I kind of assume that he knows that, and decided to simplify (a poor choice for a lengthy and detailed interview imo).

I'm not sure I understand your point though, beyond "with more knowledge we will get better at this." What is the timeline? Is there any current research that may lead to this breakthrough, whereby we no longer have to borrow evolved tools from other life forms and can actually develop a precise and resistance-immune treatment?

Re: Dr. Arjun Srinivasan: We’ve Reached “The End of Antibiotics, Period”

#114

Post by bad_user »

ceejayoz wrote: post #82
swamp40 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tools of last resort only to be used in emergencies, with great hesitation, and only when absolutely necessary. Really? And whose lives are you willing to play that game with? Your 8 y.o son, who just broke his arm and has new swelling three days after the arm has been set? Your wife, with a bladder infection so severe it's bleeding and she has a fever? "Sorry, son - your suffering is for the betterment of mankind.…

Those examples both qualify as necessary and emergent. What's been happening for decades is things like kids getting a cold and doctors wanting to appease panicked parents by prescribing an antibiotic (that's obviously going to do nothing to a virus).

Exactly. And not even for more severe colds either, like when having fever or a red throat, but rather for freaking runny noses.

Re: Dr. Arjun Srinivasan: We’ve Reached “The End of Antibiotics, Period”

#115

Post by XorNot »

rblatz wrote: post #76
DanBC wrote: post #57

I've posted this before, but some people may have missed it. "Defeating the superbugs" ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01ms5c6 ) has a segment showing bacteria developing resistance to antibiotics. ( http://v6.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=24goih4&s=6 ) (Sorry about the lousy host; YouTube's content sniffing detects this as BBC property and blocks it.) They have a slab of nutrient jelly. The jelly has sections of di…

I've always been under the impression that bacteria pay a heavy evolutionary tax for their resistance. So what would happen if you then took a sample from the 1000x section of jelly and then another sample of your initial bacteria and put them on opposite sides of nutrient jelly slab. Would the new bacteria be completely overwhelmed? Would infecting someone with a non resistant strain, letting it sit for a while and…

The problem is in situations where you want to use antibiotics, time is not on your side. There has been some work done on this idea, though I cannot recall the specifics.

Re: Dr. Arjun Srinivasan: We’ve Reached “The End of Antibiotics, Period”

#116

Post by j_baker »

hooande wrote: post #96

One thing I learned from watching this episode of Frontline was that we aren't doing a lot of research into new antibiotics. Companies like Pfizer (the original makers of penicillin) would rather create drugs like Lipitor or Prozac, things that customers will take everyday for the rest of their lives. Antibiotics are intended to be used as sparingly as possible, which doesn't leave room for a lot of profit. Even the…

It makes me think that the government will have to take some of the responsibility from the drug companies. If capitalism isn't working (which frequently happens in medical fields), we need another mechanism to make new antibiotics available.

Re: Dr. Arjun Srinivasan: We’ve Reached “The End of Antibiotics, Period”

#117

Post by j_baker »

zeteo wrote: post #49
AaronFriel wrote: post #6

For the past half century, we should have been treating our antibiotics like weapons of mass destruction - tools of last resort only to be used in emergencies, with great hesitation, and only when absolutely necessary. The industry and the doctors responded: antibiotics were too profitable and the risk seemed too distant. Now we have no weapons; we're helpless and the world is again going to be a scary place where a…

> we're helpless and the world is again going to be a scary place Whoa there. According to the article, we have few new antibiotics precisely because the old ones have been so effective: >Infections are not that common compared to other types of conditions like high blood pressure or high cholesterol. [...] They have to develop drugs that will make money, and that’s not an antibiotic. When we had lots of development…

I suppose that's true, but it seems like a perverse incentive to me. Drug companies have a financial incentive to wait for people to die rather than taking action that will prevent people from dying.

Re: Dr. Arjun Srinivasan: We’ve Reached “The End of Antibiotics, Period”

#118

Post by patrickg_zill »

While most view colloidal silver as quackery, the fact is that using silver in colloidal form along with other medicine administered at the same time, was standard practice 80 years ago.

Perhaps silver in nanoparticle form will make a comeback, as bacteria don't seem to be as able to survive the cell wall disruption that silver can cause.

Re: Dr. Arjun Srinivasan: We’ve Reached “The End of Antibiotics, Period”

#119

Post by ghaff »

tedunangst wrote: post #87
tokenadult wrote: post #70

The interviewed expert has very good credentials and clinical experience to be talking about what he is talking about, and his warnings should be taken seriously. But even at that, the fallacious teleological language he uses about biological evolution by natural selection suggests a way out of this problem. When he says, "Bacteria, like any living organism, want to survive," and "So anything that we do to try and ki…

Clearly, everyone needs to stop washing their hands, or bacteria will develop soap immunity. And then what will we do?

You've been voted down but there is actually a school of thought that excess use of antibacterials and generally going "overboard" (whatever that means exactly) with preventing children from being exposed to natural flora can potentially result in weakened immune systems. There's a lot of pseudo-science in these claims but that doesn't mean there's absolutely no truth to them. It would probably be hard to do a study though and it's not clear who would fund such a thing.

Re: Dr. Arjun Srinivasan: We’ve Reached “The End of Antibiotics, Period”

#120

Post by JacksonGariety »

tokenadult wrote: post #70

The interviewed expert has very good credentials and clinical experience to be talking about what he is talking about, and his warnings should be taken seriously. But even at that, the fallacious teleological language he uses about biological evolution by natural selection suggests a way out of this problem. When he says, "Bacteria, like any living organism, want to survive," and "So anything that we do to try and ki…

I think you're using the term "desire" in a far too literal manner.

The organism of the bacterium doesn't have desire the way humans do, but the idea of a virus or manifestation of bacteria can have a figurative desire to evolve and grow.

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