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Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’

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Re: Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’

#11

Post by toomuchtodo »

codex wrote: post #2

Man with billions invested in electric cars disparages competing technology? I am shocked. The fact is, you don't need to have a high energy density with hydrogen, as existing gas stations can be used to quick refuel a hydrogen car (with robotic assist, perhaps), without the logistical mess that comes from swapping an extremely heavy, very expensive, potentially user-abused battery with another one. You can even burn…

And how much energy is lost converting energy to hydrogen? Because there are no native hydrogen energy stores. You're either using electricity to crack water, or you're going to crack natural gas.

Its more efficient to simply use batteries.

EDIT: I'd like to point out, generating hydrogen does make sense if you're using an energy source that is essentially free. Too much hydro and you have to dump the water anyway? Make hydrogen. Too much wind and the transmission operator is shutting down your production? Make hydrogen. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to use it as an energy transfer medium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy#Current_produc...

Re: Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’

#12

Post by soperj »

beat wrote: post #3

There are three pressing concerns for hydrogen fuel cells, which can be added up to "bullshit". First, energy density. I can't speak to that in detail, but the range problem is serious. Then again, the range problem seemed insurmountable for electric cars until Tesla got within spitting distance. Second, platinum. Traditional hydrogen cells require some platinum in the catalyst, which is fine at lab scales, but unvia…

It applies to gasoline cars too, you need energy to process oil into gasoline.

Re: Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’

#14

Post by soperj »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #11
codex wrote: post #2

Man with billions invested in electric cars disparages competing technology? I am shocked. The fact is, you don't need to have a high energy density with hydrogen, as existing gas stations can be used to quick refuel a hydrogen car (with robotic assist, perhaps), without the logistical mess that comes from swapping an extremely heavy, very expensive, potentially user-abused battery with another one. You can even burn…

And how much energy is lost converting energy to hydrogen? Because there are no native hydrogen energy stores. You're either using electricity to crack water, or you're going to crack natural gas. Its more efficient to simply use batteries. EDIT: I'd like to point out, generating hydrogen does make sense if you're using an energy source that is essentially free. Too much hydro and you have to dump the water anyway? M…

source? edit: that link doesn't really say that hydrogen is less efficent than batteries, just that it has less energy than the energy content of the original fuel, which is true with charging a battery too because of transmission losses, ect.

Re: Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’

#15

Post by walshemj »

codex wrote: post #2

Man with billions invested in electric cars disparages competing technology? I am shocked. The fact is, you don't need to have a high energy density with hydrogen, as existing gas stations can be used to quick refuel a hydrogen car (with robotic assist, perhaps), without the logistical mess that comes from swapping an extremely heavy, very expensive, potentially user-abused battery with another one. You can even burn…

And you can use wind/wave/solar energy that is "spare" to crack hydrogen for storage.

The ability to use effectively the same engines and plant is a big plus for hydrogen.

Re: Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’

#16

Post by XorNot »

Gonzih wrote: post #9

IMHO hydrogen fuel cell technology is more practical. No charging time means that you can travel any range without delays as long as you have hydrogen fuel stations on your way. That kind of technology gives you more freedom I guess. You feel less limited by your vehicle. And as far as I know charging li-ion batteries is still very slow, they will go flat at some point, faster you are charging them faster they become…

Charging time is overblown. You can charge a modern battery to 80% in about 5 minutes. That's about how long it takes to fill my car with gas at the moment.

You're not going to be refueling a hydrogen fueled car that quick - it's a volatile, extremely high pressure, extremely cold gas. The safety considerations are substantial.

Re: Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’

#17

Post by soperj »

headShrinker wrote: post #6

While everyone is talking up hydrogen as a clean alternative. Currently, 90% of hydrogen is refined using fossil fuels. Even if you account for hypothetical/nonexistent future technologies, the majority of hydrogen for the foreseeable future is coming from fossil fuels. Hydrogen is truly, "Bullshit". If it launches nationwide it be because gas companies are behind the push, and they will only do it once their gasolin…

At the end of the day they're not burning the fossil fuel, so it is a clean alternative...

Re: Elon Musk Calls Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars ‘Bullshit’

#19

Post by Gonzih »

headShrinker wrote: post #6

While everyone is talking up hydrogen as a clean alternative. Currently, 90% of hydrogen is refined using fossil fuels. Even if you account for hypothetical/nonexistent future technologies, the majority of hydrogen for the foreseeable future is coming from fossil fuels. Hydrogen is truly, "Bullshit". If it launches nationwide it be because gas companies are behind the push, and they will only do it once their gasolin…

But same can be applied to electricity. Yes you can get green electricity nowadays but majority is still produced by old fashion power stations.
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