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Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

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Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#391

Post by mcv »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #299
xerophtye wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm... You are accusing MS of just forcing their choices upon their users? Isn't that Apple's standard (and actually well documented. Remember that article about Innovator's dillemma and jobs?) policy? I thought apple was famous for completely ignoring their users and telling them WHAT they want. Now THAT is use of monopoly. Google does that too (remember closing off gtalk?). Secondly, the Metro UI thing, IMHO wasn't…

The problem is not that MS is forcing choices on their desktop users. Apple, Google, Yahoo, and everyone else does that. The problem is that MS is forcing terrible choices on their desktop users. They had one job. One job. Don't screw up Windows. And what'd they do? They screwed up Windows. Metro was a mistake. And again, everybody else makes mistakes, too. But then they went full retard, and refused to backtrack. Th…

But they're not forcing you to use Windows 8, do they? In the days of DOS and Win 95, they used every dirty trick in the book to force competitors out of the market. Nowadays they can't do that anymore. A lot of software that was only available on DOS or Windows is now available on Mac and Linux.

And even if you do need Windows, Win7 works fine. I feel forced to switch from XP to 7, but that's not such a terrible move. I'll skip Win8, and maybe there won't even be a Win9.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#392

Post by rbanffy »

belorn wrote: post #324
lmkg wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Risky for real commenters who care about their presence on HN. Effectively consequence-free for astroturfers.

New accounts can be handled differently by the flame war flamewar detector than established accounts. That is, if this is a actually problem and not only a theoretical one.

Not a big problem if you grow a constant number of expendable accounts.

If I were an astroturfer, grooming accounts would be part of my daily routine. I'd probably automate it too.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#393

Post by _pferreir_ »

girvo wrote: post #380
belorn wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did you try to accomplish with this post? The parent post talks about the perceived mono-culture of Microsoft, and the effects this has on his "friend Greg" when Greg later tries to seek a new job. Your post is all about how much you like Microsoft. It could likely be replaced by the words "But I like Microsoft developer tools", and still get the exact same message across. There is no sources to back it up, or a…

I find people that "like" companies quite amusing. I think Microsoft has potential, but currently there is a reason I don't use any of their products nor plan to personally. Doesn't mean they don't have their place, like any product. Also, an argument could easily be made that OP's post, which I found really interesting, is just another way of saying "Microsoft sucks", as it is merely anecdotes without sources again.…

> I find people that "like" companies quite amusing.

I think they pretty much account for most of the hate you see on HN. Brand identity is the new opiate of the masses.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#395

Post by Deestan »

pnathan wrote: post #172

Hiya Sean, So you posted a real classic flamewar topic here... heh. Enjoy the war. But here's my take on Microsoft Corp, since you asked nicely. You guys don't play nice. You've never played nice, and the fact that you've gotten better lately seems to be more due to the fact that you've lost dominance and have to interop with other operating systems. I'm not really going to provide significant examples, there are lot…

> MS had a terrible rep for being aggressive and with bad ethics in the 80s and 90s

That's a really important consideration. Hackers have long memories, and a lot of us don't consider "it's just business" to be in any way a relevant defense.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#396

Post by _pferreir_ »

I don't personally hate Microsoft, but it's true that it is perhaps not the most popular tablet manufacturer in the world right now.

I know many people who own an iPad, several others who have Android tablets, but zero Windows tablet owners. I guess that should explain by itself why people are not really excited about it. Fuss and hype are not basic human rights.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#397

Post by anoncowherd »

pcwalton wrote: post #259
cleversoap wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

clang clang clang went the compiler!

Like the other projects mentioned, LLVM was open source before Apple starting leading its development.

.. But you can be sure that Apple's contributions have taken it far further than it would otherwise be.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#398

Post by stevecooperorg »

jeswin wrote: post #163

I'll tell you the story of my friend Greg. Greg has been a believer in Microsoft. He went to all the Tech-Ed conferences, attended every MSDN event he could. Conferences are grand stages that leave an impression. He drank all the cool-aid that was served at these conferences. Things were really good early on, this was the last decade. The computing scene at that time revolved around Microsoft like the many moons of J…

This story could be told of any developer who doesn't update his skills for seven years. You could tell this story for Java developers, Flash developers, PHP developers, etc. Anyone peddling skills from 2006 is going to be looking pretty dated, no matter what stack you're talking about.

I also don't see this: "I would fault them for building their entire ecosystem with total disregard for standards, their refusal to work with whatever community existed outside." My daily experience is very different. If I start a new project, it'll almost certainly be on the open-source (Apache 2.0) ASP.NET MVC platform. That gives me Twitter Bootstrap, Knockout.js, OAuth2.0, etc. It's a neatly integrated patchwork of commonly-used, standards-happy, open-source frameworks and libraries, and it'll work happily on safari and chrome and on my phone. So I don't feel particularly isolated away from the rest of the development world.

Summary is, I'm sure this vision was true years ago, but things seem to have moved on. I think that now, if I want to put together software using modern approach, there aren't approaches or technologies that the MS stack makes tricky. But I'm happy to be corrected; are there technologies or approaches I can't use fairly easily on the MS stack? Cloud computing? single page apps? continuous integration? BDD? etc. What am I missing?

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