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Russian programmer fights Goldman Sachs and wins one round

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61–70 of 142 posts

Re: Russian programmer fights Goldman Sachs and wins one round

#61

How is this not double jeopardy?

Double jeopardy is to conceptually prevent a person from going free, but then being tried again and convicted. The idea is "once you're acquitted, you're acquitted" That wouldn't be the case here since he was already convicted so additional trials could only benefit him.

But really it's a judge ruling that the original trial was all effed up and that a new trial would need to take place in order to do justice.

Re: Russian programmer fights Goldman Sachs and wins one round

#62
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he modified it for his own use, then that's clearly the case. If he modified it for the use of others within Goldman, they might have conceivably had a claim to a copy of the source under the GPL; he would not. I'm not entirely sure of that, or of whether employment contracts &c could limit that. For that matter, I'm not entirely sure what the answer should be there.

I think an internal user could easily be persuaded not to demand the source code.

In the typical case, probably, but if you have a large organization you could easily wind up with one exception. What rights these people do and don't have still seems important.

Re: Russian programmer fights Goldman Sachs and wins one round

#63
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the original article, Goldman was actually violating the license terms of the open source software it had modified by not releasing it. Further, while you and I may have our opinions, a judge found Goldman's actions to be so egregious that he ordered them to pay the defense costs for someone accused of stealing from them. That is exceedingly rare, and wouldn't have happened if there were any doubts about…

Goldman was actually violating the license terms of the open source software it had modified by not releasing it. I down-voted you because people keep saying that and it is false. The Vanity Fair article uses the qualifier "possibly" when talking about GS violating the licenses and that's because none of the major license families (BSD, GPL, MPL, etc) have a requirement to release modifications if the whole is not re…

And none of them have that requirement because distribution inside of an organization does not count as a distribution for the purpose of copyright law. (Though if you let people carry it out of the organization, that's a different story.)

Re: Russian programmer fights Goldman Sachs and wins one round

#64
It seems Goldman Sachs attempted to commandeer the criminal justice system to retaliate against a former employee, and succeeded in doing so. It is not in the jurisdiction of police to act as arbiters of employment disputes -- that is for the civil court system. Whatever the allegations against Mr. Aleynikov, this I am sure we can all agree on.

Re: Russian programmer fights Goldman Sachs and wins one round

#65
post #51

For everyone bringing up the GPL licence, strait from the horse's mouth: > The GPL does not require you to release your modified version. You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization. But if you release…

I don't know why everyone keeps bringing this up. The whole point of the license applies to distribution. Even if it said you should distribute privately used modifications, that is unenforceable and stupid.

Re: Russian programmer fights Goldman Sachs and wins one round

#66
post #3

For those that are interested in the backstory: http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2013/09/michael-lewis-gol...

Thanks for the link. Interesting read, especially the line: "The only employee of Goldman Sachs to go to jail in the aftermath of the financial crisis was the employee Goldman Sachs wanted sent to jail."

Re: Russian programmer fights Goldman Sachs and wins one round

#67
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that clear? I haven't followed the case, but it seems as though he copied important intellectual property (HFT code) when he left the firm. I'm sure if a developer at Apple or Microsoft downloaded the Windows or OS X kernel code when they left that they would face charges of some kind as well.

I read the original (very detailed) article. According to it, everything he copied was non-proprietary. Almost all of it was open source stuff.

According to it, everything he copied was non-proprietary. Almost all of it was open source stuff.

That doesn't make any sense. If the code truly were FOSS, why on earth would he copy it from his employer when he could eliminate legal risk by downloading it off the open internet? We know he's not stupid.

Re: Russian programmer fights Goldman Sachs and wins one round

#68
post #17

It's very clear that Goldman is trying to punish him for leaving, while sending a message to their other programmers that if they leave, their lives will be ruined. Even if this guy ultimately wins the state trial, he will never get back the years he has spent fighting it. Goldman has already won, and in this case that is appalling.

No, it's very clear what he did was wrong. He works in an industry that does not allow you to email code home or copy it off of company computers. Goldman might be a little different, but where I've worked, this was definitely a no, no, and you could easily be fired for doing it.

You're conflating the ideas of right and wrong, of law, and of company policy. If something is against policy, that doesn't make it illegal. If something is illegal, that doesn't make it wrong.

Re: Russian programmer fights Goldman Sachs and wins one round

#69
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not according to the GSF's website. Besides, let's face it, GS employees likely don't have any 'secret' code anywhere near their computers. It likely lives on their mainframes, and only there.

Well, it's an FAQ, it's a simplification, not the actual legally binding license. I can't find any mention of "organization", but I do find these parts (GPLv2): 3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following: [give access to the sourcecode] Meaning everyone yo…

From section 0 of the GPL v3

> “The Program” refers to any copyrightable work licensed under this License. Each licensee is addressed as “you”. “Licensees” and “recipients” may be individuals or organizations.

And

> To “propagate” a work means to do anything with it that, without permission, would make you directly or secondarily liable for infringement under applicable copyright law, except executing it on a computer or modifying a private copy. Propagation includes copying, distribution (with or without modification), making available to the public, and in some countries other activities as well.

http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html

Re: Russian programmer fights Goldman Sachs and wins one round

#70
post #31

Here is the story covered in more detail: http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2013/09/michael-lewis-gol...

Here is a page that was set up for him last year. Looks as though it hasn't been updated in a while. http://www.aleynikov.org/
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