Here's the test I've used in the past: Before the interview, I ask them to write some code to access an HTTP endpoint that contains exchange rate data (USD, EUR, GBP, JPY etc.) in XML and to parse and load said data into a relational database. Then to build a very simple HTML form based front-end that lets you input a currency and convert it into another currency. I ask them to send me either a link to a repository (…
Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
321–330 of 354 posts
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#322In most cases an applicant must be able to read English (to google some code to copy-paste and occasionally search through documentation) and able to install and run Eclipse.
The real problem with hiring is that a HR middleman is ignorant and can't tell a good code form a restaurant menu. So he must give a very few simple exercises from common text-books with known answers.
The even bigger problem is that almost no one needs coders, everyone wants programmers which is a complete different set of analytical and engineering skills.
Coding is just a process of translation of a ready-made by someone else, poorly understood (if at all) specifications into a spaghetti [Java] code by calling poorly understood methods of ready-made classes, coded by someone else.
Programming is a process of understanding and describing reality (in terms of design documents, protocol specifications, and then, least importantly, source code in a several languages).
The criteria of success for a coder, btw, is when it just compiles (unit-tests? what unit-tests?) by the industry-strength most advanced compiler of the most sophisticated industry standard static-typing language (static typing is a guarantee from stupid errors, everyone knows) which is even verified to run correctly on the most advanced VM which incorporates millions of man-hours of optimizations, unless.. Never mind.
Success of a programmer is when it, like nginx or Plan9 or OpenBSD, is good-enough.)
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#323Why not just look at the person's recent commits?
Honestly, this is a weirdly naive question. Gung-ho startup culture does not represent the industry as a whole, and you don't need to eat, breathe, and sweat code every waking moment of your life to be a great coder.
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
OR , those people are wealthy because they have a high IQ, and are likely to give birth to children with a high IQ. I would bet that's far more likely.
I think the number of dumb but rich people in American politics dis proves your thesis.
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suspect the actual correlation is not with wealth (i.e. giving money so somebody with low SAT scores would not actually improve their scores - unless he would have enough money to bribe whoever is overseeing the test of course ;) but with some things that correlate with wealth.
It sounds like you heard "causation" when parent said correlation. Correlation is observed in past samples; what you describe is a mechanism for trying to disprove causation, but it won't remove any correlation from the past samples, and it probably won't remove the correlation with historical wealth of the family etc.
I do not see any way "historical wealth" could directly - without intervening variables - influence one's SAT scores. Of course, having affluent parents may mean certain value given to quality education, certain amount of care and access to development tools and so on - but then those should be primary factors considered, not wealth per se.
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the number of dumb but rich people in American politics dis proves your thesis.
Maybe they aren't as dumb - at least in the area that made them rich - as it seems. I can imagine someone bing smart in the university hall and dumb on the street, or vice versa.
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
The currency of upvotes suggests that many readers have appreciated my comment, perhaps because it provided them new information about an important set of issues. That set of issues has been discussed in many of the comments here, and was discussed in the original article. The currency of actual cash money, which is not provided in our information-sharing environment here on Hacker News, would free up time for me to…
A comment of this size that's not specific to the article might be better hosted on a blog and incorporated by reference, or a link to the previous discussion on HN. It's great material, but I have to agree with the GP that you post substantially the same comment every few months. It does rather swamp other contributions while being somewhat generic.
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#328Here's the test I've used in the past: Before the interview, I ask them to write some code to access an HTTP endpoint that contains exchange rate data (USD, EUR, GBP, JPY etc.) in XML and to parse and load said data into a relational database. Then to build a very simple HTML form based front-end that lets you input a currency and convert it into another currency. I ask them to send me either a link to a repository (…
Are you a prof at UIC (or alumni)? I saw a job posting that basically described the first part of this, which made me smile because it actually made sense, instead of abstract nonsense about goats crossing bridges...
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#329Because they don't know you, you don't have a well known name, they don't know what you can and if it is true. E.g. if somebody hire John Carmack (ID Software), nobody will let him do some math test or ask him trivial programming questions. But you are not John Carmack ;-) It is like in every other job: if you are not a rockstar you are nobody.
Did you even read the article? The author was not saying she was above simple coding tests but that she was an inexperienced programmer who was GOOD at the maths puzzles and got the job then struggled and the interviewer's assessment of her software development ability would have been better with some software related questions.
We life in a world of casting shows, now we (the programmers) are in that shows too. They run only in companies.
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
Generally speaking, high quality people won't take a short-term contracting gig. They are probably working elsewhere and don't need that level of uncertainty; they're looking for something better , not just anything.
I'd hope that by that point I'd have sold them on my company enough that they really thought it was better . Also, I don't think it needs to be a long gig. Maybe even just a day, which isn't much longer than the gauntlet of technical interviews some companies will put you through. Even that short period should be enough to see if someone works well.