Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary • Hacker News Board

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#201

Post by parennoob » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 7:41 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #151

parennoob wrote: post #22

When someone like Github does this (make some parts of their code open-source, but others closed-source), journalists don't write critical pieces about them, do they? I mean, Google leaves a bad taste in my mouth since they started shuttering services like it was Christmas at the Google Service Chopping Block, but I don't see them being actively evil here. It's all according to the previously openly aired plan. Googl…

> When someone like Github does this (make some parts of their code open-source, but others closed-source), journalists don't write critical pieces about them, do they? Github don't constantly go on about how 'open' Github is, though.

True, but Github does use the halo of "Open Source" a lot to promote themselves (or others promote them using it..e.g. http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/03/github/) while overlooking the fact that most of their codebase is very close sourced indeed.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#202

Post by bad_user » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 8:09 PM UTC

rquirk wrote: post #145

bgaluszka wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I actually play around with an old Galaxy S on top of which I installed Cyanogenmod without any of Google's Apps. The only problem is that developers only publish their apps on Google Play, which is a shame, given that Android does allow you to install apps from third party sources and you could have a good experience just with stock Android. I went through the same process of installing Cyanogenmod without Google…

Well one theory is that simply setting up a site that you can download an APK from is a hassle. It either costs you bandwidth if it's your own server, or has terrible UX if it is hosted via a share site. There's always https://f-droid.org - it has somewhat vetted free-as-in-freedom apps that must compile from source.

Oh, come on, putting a 20 MB binary somewhere is cheap and easy.

I think developers don't put APKs anywhere else because they think they won't have an audience for those anyway. But it's a pity anyway. For example Humble Bundle packs with Android games were quite successful and the distribution method was through download links.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#203

Post by at-fates-hands » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 8:35 PM UTC

As much as the Android people hate the Apple people, Android is doing the same thing Windows and Apple have been doing for years - trying to shoe horn people into THEIR walled in garden.

This is the future of smartphones. You pick a phone and by doing so, you pick the walled garden you're going to most comfortable playing in, pure and simple.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#204

Post by simbolit » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 8:35 PM UTC

Why don't they (potential competitors) write an open source app based on openstreetmap? Their mapping data is usually on par, often even superior to that of Google. Plus, its free (in both senses of the word).

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#205

Post by nodata » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 8:45 PM UTC

badman_ting wrote: post #169

r0h1n wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't we forgetting about the closed-source elephant in the room - Google Play Services - the "platform behind the platform"? >> Play Services has system-level powers, but it's updatable. It's part of the Google apps package, so it's not open source. OEMs are not allowed to modify it, making it completely under Google's control. Play Services basically acts as a shim between the normal apps and the installed Android…

This is either becoming or already is the core of Android, and it's closed source and no one wants to talk abut it. It's ridiculous.

iirc Google Play Services becoming updateable was to work around carriers and manufacturers not giving android os updates to their end-users.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#206

Post by mcb3k » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 9:16 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #202

rquirk wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well one theory is that simply setting up a site that you can download an APK from is a hassle. It either costs you bandwidth if it's your own server, or has terrible UX if it is hosted via a share site. There's always https://f-droid.org - it has somewhat vetted free-as-in-freedom apps that must compile from source.

Oh, come on, putting a 20 MB binary somewhere is cheap and easy. I think developers don't put APKs anywhere else because they think they won't have an audience for those anyway. But it's a pity anyway. For example Humble Bundle packs with Android games were quite successful and the distribution method was through download links.

I agree that it is a pity. When/if I get around to developing Android apps, I will be definitely distributing packages that way.

However, I would like to point out that the Humble Bundle packs, while available via download links, also is available for download using a Humble Bundle app that acts like a package manager. I don't know how much that would change things, success-wise, but I thought it was worth noting.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#207

Post by dsuth » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 9:24 PM UTC

AJ007 wrote: post #173

sbuk wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopoly is not antitrust. Abusing control of a market is. A monopoly (which is usually considered to be dominance if a market place) is not itself unlawful.

This sounds like an antitrust issue: "This makes life extremely difficult for the only company brazen enough to sell an Android fork in the west: Amazon. Since the Kindle OS counts as an incompatible version of Android, no major OEM is allowed to produce the Kindle Fire for Amazon. So when Amazon goes shopping for a manufacturer for its next tablet, it has to immediately cross Acer, Asus, Dell, Foxconn, Fujitsu, HTC,…

Yeah, that's a serious problem for me, essentially using their leverage with the Google platform to keep competitors out of the market. Not cool Google.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#208

Post by bookwormAT » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 9:38 PM UTC

lttlrck wrote: post #200

bookwormAT wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nonesense. Android is a software platform that companies can build sofware and devices on. Android is not a device, and it's not an "operating system" in the sense that people use this word today. It is a fundament that you can build an operating system with, and a cross platform that allows applications run on different software, as long as this software is based on Android. If you want to show off what Android can…

"If you want to show off what Android can do, you put it on all kinds of devices that people are using at the moment." I'm not so sure about that. Blackberry didn't do that, and neither did Apple...

Not sure I understand your comment. Neither Blackberry nor Apple developed a cross platform technology meant to run different hardware/software configurations. So of course they did not demonstrate how a platform runs on such configurations.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#209

Post by myko » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 10:14 PM UTC

gibwell wrote: post #76

dmethvin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is stuck behind a rock and a hard place. If they don't try to create incentives for a unified experience, they get bashed for encouraging fragmentation, if they do assert a level of control, they get bashed for not being completely open. This is exactly the position Microsoft was in during the mid-1990s, even before they went after Netscape. The article is saying that Google is even applying some of the same…

Saying 'iOS is more closed' doesn't make Android meaningfully open.

Right. Being able to fork the OS and release devices like the Kindle Fire do make Android meangingfully open.

Saying 'iOS is more closed' is just obvious.

Re: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary

#210

Post by myko » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 10:18 PM UTC

studentrob wrote: post #167

bad_user wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're partly right, but in regards to the Gmail app, what I don't like about Android is that it doesn't come with a good email client that's not GMail. Android's GMail client is very polished and there's not much in it that's specific to Gmail, it could be a generic email client that works with POP3/IMAP/SMTP and other standards as well. The experience of users that aren't into Android's own services do suffer. But…

Is GMail subject to the same task killer that 3rd party apps are? I suspect it isn't. If that's true then Google has given itself a good monopoly for email on its own OS, much like Microsoft did for Internet Explorer.

Your suspicion is wrong and really, really, out there as well. I'm surprised to hear someone thinks this.